Re: Need help with the planetary drive on T-4XC
Bill,
I just searched for "vernier".
Look for this one:
Repair and Fabrication of a Preselector Vernier Drive
Shows how one guy fixed his which must have looked like yours.
I am guessing that the T-4XC is the same as my T-4X and T-4XB however.
73,
Gary
WB6OGD
On 03/14/2023 10:02 PM Bill Leonard N0CU <billincolo73@...> wrote:
Gary,
Your drive is similar, but noticeably?different. Yours appears to have the bearings enclosed in a shell that I am guessing provides the needed pressure to force the outer (larger) shaft to rotate when the inner shaft is rotated. Mine (see pic below) as open bearings. In the current state, the small shaft rotates but does not cause the bearings to rotate, which means the larger shaft does not rotate (pic was taken with the bearings removed). Does the large shaft on your drive rotate when the small shaft is rotated?
Earlier I referred to crimp pressure. That is probably not the best?way to describe what I was referring to. Inside the large shaft, and at the end of the small shaft there is a spring, which I believe causes the necessary friction to force the ball bearings to rotate. However, it is an extremely stiff spring and I simply cannot get enough force to compress it onto?the shaft that moves the slugs in the coils to the point where I?can set the?Allen screws, so when the small shaft is rotated, nothing happens with the large shaft.
The pdf on the drive repair appears to show encapsulated bearings, similar to your drive.
I tried searching the files section but didn't find the article?you just sent, or any others on vernier drives. What words did you use in your search?
Here is one out of a T-4X.? Is yours like
this?
 ?Sent from my iPhone
Gary,
I am suspecting that there is a crimp force part to the solution, but if so, I think that the crimp force has to be set with the long shaft attached. That is the shaft that moves the coil slugs. If so, then I wonder if there was a special fixture that Drake used to do it. The reason I say that is as soon as I loosened the Allen set screws, the shafts loosened up and they haven't operated properly since. Hopefully I am not the only one to encounter this problem and that there is a workaround for not having the fixture if one was used.
How about some photos.
The Drake drive is crimped together by the
outside.? Getting the crimp force right is the?
adjustment.
73,
Gary?
WB6OGD?
Surely there is a youtube video on this somewhere?
73, Jim W7RY
On 3/14/2023 4:49 PM, Bill Leonard N0CU wrote:
I was trying to free up the RF Drive by cleaning out the old grease. Made the mistake of loosening the Allen screws. After getting the bearings back in their holes, the small center shaft spins freely without turning the large shaft. I noticed that there is a spring on the end of the small shaft, but I cannot figure out how to get enough tension on the center shaft to get it to spin the outer shaft. What am I missing?
--?
Bill N0CU
--
Thanks and 73, Jim W7RY
|
Re: Need help with the planetary drive on T-4XC
Bill,
It looks like you are missing half of your drive!
Your photo looks like mine when dissassembled and half is gone.
Look in the Files section, there is an article on how someone fixed his by building the parts
you are missing in plastic (I think).
Your spring must be someones work-around to sort of fix it.
73,
Gary
WB6OGD
On 03/14/2023 10:02 PM Bill Leonard N0CU <billincolo73@...> wrote:
Gary,
Your drive is similar, but noticeably?different. Yours appears to have the bearings enclosed in a shell that I am guessing provides the needed pressure to force the outer (larger) shaft to rotate when the inner shaft is rotated. Mine (see pic below) as open bearings. In the current state, the small shaft rotates but does not cause the bearings to rotate, which means the larger shaft does not rotate (pic was taken with the bearings removed). Does the large shaft on your drive rotate when the small shaft is rotated?
Earlier I referred to crimp pressure. That is probably not the best?way to describe what I was referring to. Inside the large shaft, and at the end of the small shaft there is a spring, which I believe causes the necessary friction to force the ball bearings to rotate. However, it is an extremely stiff spring and I simply cannot get enough force to compress it onto?the shaft that moves the slugs in the coils to the point where I?can set the?Allen screws, so when the small shaft is rotated, nothing happens with the large shaft.
The pdf on the drive repair appears to show encapsulated bearings, similar to your drive.
I tried searching the files section but didn't find the article?you just sent, or any others on vernier drives. What words did you use in your search?
Here is one out of a T-4X.? Is yours like
this?
 ?Sent from my iPhone
Gary,
I am suspecting that there is a crimp force part to the solution, but if so, I think that the crimp force has to be set with the long shaft attached. That is the shaft that moves the coil slugs. If so, then I wonder if there was a special fixture that Drake used to do it. The reason I say that is as soon as I loosened the Allen set screws, the shafts loosened up and they haven't operated properly since. Hopefully I am not the only one to encounter this problem and that there is a workaround for not having the fixture if one was used.
How about some photos.
The Drake drive is crimped together by the
outside.? Getting the crimp force right is the?
adjustment.
73,
Gary?
WB6OGD?
Surely there is a youtube video on this somewhere?
73, Jim W7RY
On 3/14/2023 4:49 PM, Bill Leonard N0CU wrote:
I was trying to free up the RF Drive by cleaning out the old grease. Made the mistake of loosening the Allen screws. After getting the bearings back in their holes, the small center shaft spins freely without turning the large shaft. I noticed that there is a spring on the end of the small shaft, but I cannot figure out how to get enough tension on the center shaft to get it to spin the outer shaft. What am I missing?
--?
Bill N0CU
--
Thanks and 73, Jim W7RY
|
Re: Need help with the planetary drive on T-4XC
Gary, Your drive is similar, but noticeably?different. Yours appears to have the bearings enclosed in a shell that I am guessing provides the needed pressure to force the outer (larger) shaft to rotate when the inner shaft is rotated. Mine (see pic below) as open bearings. In the current state, the small shaft rotates but does not cause the bearings to rotate, which means the larger shaft does not rotate (pic was taken with the bearings removed). Does the large shaft on your drive rotate when the small shaft is rotated? Earlier I referred to crimp pressure. That is probably not the best?way to describe what I was referring to. Inside the large shaft, and at the end of the small shaft there is a spring, which I believe causes the necessary friction to force the ball bearings to rotate. However, it is an extremely stiff spring and I simply cannot get enough force to compress it onto?the shaft that moves the slugs in the coils to the point where I?can set the?Allen screws, so when the small shaft is rotated, nothing happens with the large shaft. The pdf on the drive repair appears to show encapsulated bearings, similar to your drive. I tried searching the files section but didn't find the article?you just sent, or any others on vernier drives. What words did you use in your search?
Here is one out of a T-4X.? Is yours like this?  ?Sent from my iPhone ? Gary, I am suspecting that there is a crimp force part to the solution, but if so, I think that the crimp force has to be set with the long shaft attached. That is the shaft that moves the coil slugs. If so, then I wonder if there was a special fixture that Drake used to do it. The reason I say that is as soon as I loosened the Allen set screws, the shafts loosened up and they haven't operated properly since. Hopefully I am not the only one to encounter this problem and that there is a workaround for not having the fixture if one was used. How about some photos. The Drake drive is crimped together by the outside.? Getting the crimp force right is the? adjustment. 73, Gary? WB6OGD? ?
Surely there is a youtube video on this somewhere?
73, Jim W7RY
On 3/14/2023 4:49 PM, Bill Leonard N0CU
wrote:
I was trying to free up the RF Drive by cleaning out the old
grease. Made the mistake of loosening the Allen screws. After
getting the bearings back in their holes, the small center shaft
spins freely without turning the large shaft. I noticed that there
is a spring on the end of the small shaft, but I cannot figure out
how to get enough tension on the center shaft to get it to spin
the outer shaft. What am I missing?
--?
Bill N0CU
--
Thanks and 73, Jim W7RY
|
Re: What are the differances between the T4X and the T4XB
Now I remember the research that I did.?
I compared schematics of the T-4X to the T-4XB and found there were quite a few differences in the keying circuit but it started to look doable. Then I noticed the mode switch differences.?
I¡¯m remembering now that I discovered that it would be very difficult to change the keying circuit because the mode switch is not the same between the older and newer sets.?
The late ¡°A¡± line has the whole circuit as shown in the ¡°B¡± schematic ¡ª including the different wafers.?
I was going to convert my T-4 until I discovered this.?
73,
Steve Wedge, W1ES/4
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Sent from Proton Mail for iOS
On Tue, Mar 14, 2023 at 14:00, David < david.w5xu@...> wrote: While not all inclusive to my experience, it was a noticeable difference from the TR44 which uses the T4X that the SSB use either had to have the key closed or the key jack empty. On the B and C line, this is not the case. As I just finished restoring the R4A and T4X, I will have to remember this. As to an all encompassing list of these changes, I know of none; but it would be handy for those folks who switch around from radio to radio.
Nice piece of history. I guess that Drake did indeed pay attention to user feedback on future designs.
David Assaf III W5XU, VP8RXU
On Tue, Mar 14, 2023 at 12:53?PM Steve Wedge, W1ES/4 via <w1es= [email protected]> wrote: I can't remember but there could be something on Garey's CD. There are several revisions of the schematic.
Steve Wedge, W1ES/4
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Sent with secure email.
------- Original Message -------
On Tuesday, March 14th, 2023 at 1:11 PM, Bill Leonard N0CU < billincolo73@...> wrote:
Steve,
Is this change documented anywhere?
--
Bill N0CU
|
Re: Need help with the planetary drive on T-4XC
Search the Files section, there are a few articles on fixing the vernier drives.
Attached is another on I had on my disk.
All rebuilding and adjustment is done on the drive itself ( the drive is shown in my hand in the previous post).
73,
Gary
WB6OGD
|
Re: Need help with the planetary drive on T-4XC
Here is one out of a T-4X. ?Is yours like this?  ?Sent from my iPhone
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 14, 2023, at 5:30 PM, Bill Leonard N0CU <billincolo73@...> wrote:
? Gary, I am suspecting that there is a crimp force part to the solution, but if so, I think that the crimp force has to be set with the long shaft attached. That is the shaft that moves the coil slugs. If so, then I wonder if there was a special fixture that Drake used to do it. The reason I say that is as soon as I loosened the Allen set screws, the shafts loosened up and they haven't operated properly since. Hopefully I am not the only one to encounter this problem and that there is a workaround for not having the fixture if one was used. How about some photos. The Drake drive is crimped together by the outside.? Getting the crimp force right is the? adjustment. 73, Gary? WB6OGD? ?
Surely there is a youtube video on this somewhere?
73, Jim W7RY
On 3/14/2023 4:49 PM, Bill Leonard N0CU
wrote:
I was trying to free up the RF Drive by cleaning out the old
grease. Made the mistake of loosening the Allen screws. After
getting the bearings back in their holes, the small center shaft
spins freely without turning the large shaft. I noticed that there
is a spring on the end of the small shaft, but I cannot figure out
how to get enough tension on the center shaft to get it to spin
the outer shaft. What am I missing?
--?
Bill N0CU
--
Thanks and 73, Jim W7RY
|
The extender boards are the same as any of the other TR7 boards. The only exception is, of course, the DR7 jumper lard. Good luck with that board as it has active components on it.?
The actual height is irrelevant as long as all are the same length and your extenders are long enough to extend a given board out far enough to allow servicing them.
Gary?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 14, 2023, at 1:36 AM, Tom Evans <Tom.AG9X@...> wrote:
? Jim,
Correct.? My TR-7 came with no noise blanker.? The woodpecker forced me to buy one.? The dummy board remains.? Thanks for pointing out that the dummy board was not part of the extender board set.
73, Tom, AG9X On Mon, Mar 13, 2023 at 6:57?PM Jim Shorney < jimNU0C@...> wrote:
The NB-7 dummy board, a.k.a. IF Switching Board, was not a part of the Drake extender kit. It was only used for TR7s that did not have the NB-7 option.
73
-Jim
NU0C
|
Re: Need help with the planetary drive on T-4XC
Gary, I am suspecting that there is a crimp force part to the solution, but if so, I think that the crimp force has to be set with the long shaft attached. That is the shaft that moves the coil slugs. If so, then I wonder if there was a special fixture that Drake used to do it. The reason I say that is as soon as I loosened the Allen set screws, the shafts loosened up and they haven't operated properly since. Hopefully I am not the only one to encounter this problem and that there is a workaround for not having the fixture if one was used.
How about some photos. The Drake drive is crimped together by the outside.? Getting the crimp force right is the? adjustment. 73, Gary? WB6OGD? ?
Surely there is a youtube video on this somewhere?
73, Jim W7RY
On 3/14/2023 4:49 PM, Bill Leonard N0CU
wrote:
I was trying to free up the RF Drive by cleaning out the old
grease. Made the mistake of loosening the Allen screws. After
getting the bearings back in their holes, the small center shaft
spins freely without turning the large shaft. I noticed that there
is a spring on the end of the small shaft, but I cannot figure out
how to get enough tension on the center shaft to get it to spin
the outer shaft. What am I missing?
--?
Bill N0CU
--
Thanks and 73, Jim W7RY
|
Re: Need help with the planetary drive on T-4XC
Jim, I searched around but couldn't find anything, Youtube or written
Surely there is a youtube video on this somewhere?
73, Jim W7RY
On 3/14/2023 4:49 PM, Bill Leonard N0CU
wrote:
I was trying to free up the RF Drive by cleaning out the old
grease. Made the mistake of loosening the Allen screws. After
getting the bearings back in their holes, the small center shaft
spins freely without turning the large shaft. I noticed that there
is a spring on the end of the small shaft, but I cannot figure out
how to get enough tension on the center shaft to get it to spin
the outer shaft. What am I missing?
--?
Bill N0CU
--
Thanks and 73, Jim W7RY
|
Re: Need help with the planetary drive on T-4XC
How about some photos. The Drake drive is crimped together by the outside. ?Getting the crimp force right is the? adjustment. 73, Gary? WB6OGD?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 14, 2023, at 4:30 PM, Jim W7RY via groups.io <jimw7ry@...> wrote:
?
Surely there is a youtube video on this somewhere?
73, Jim W7RY
On 3/14/2023 4:49 PM, Bill Leonard N0CU
wrote:
I was trying to free up the RF Drive by cleaning out the old
grease. Made the mistake of loosening the Allen screws. After
getting the bearings back in their holes, the small center shaft
spins freely without turning the large shaft. I noticed that there
is a spring on the end of the small shaft, but I cannot figure out
how to get enough tension on the center shaft to get it to spin
the outer shaft. What am I missing?
--?
Bill N0CU
--
Thanks and 73, Jim W7RY
|
Re: Need help with the planetary drive on T-4XC
Surely there is a youtube video on this somewhere?
73, Jim W7RY
On 3/14/2023 4:49 PM, Bill Leonard N0CU
wrote:
I was trying to free up the RF Drive by cleaning out the old
grease. Made the mistake of loosening the Allen screws. After
getting the bearings back in their holes, the small center shaft
spins freely without turning the large shaft. I noticed that there
is a spring on the end of the small shaft, but I cannot figure out
how to get enough tension on the center shaft to get it to spin
the outer shaft. What am I missing?
--?
Bill N0CU
--
Thanks and 73, Jim W7RY
|
Need help with the planetary drive on T-4XC
I was trying to free up the RF Drive by cleaning out the old grease. Made the mistake of loosening the Allen screws. After getting the bearings back in their holes, the small center shaft spins freely without turning the large shaft. I noticed that there is a spring on the end of the small shaft, but I cannot figure out how to get enough tension on the center shaft to get it to spin the outer shaft. What am I missing?
--?
Bill N0CU
|
Re: What are the differances between the T4X and the T4XB
While not all inclusive to my experience, it was a noticeable difference from the TR44 which uses the T4X that the SSB use either had to have the key closed or the key jack empty.? On the B and C line, this is not the case.? As I just finished restoring the R4A and T4X, I will have to remember this.? As to an all encompassing?list of these changes, I know of none; but it would be handy for those folks who switch around from radio to radio.
Nice piece of history.? I guess that Drake did indeed pay attention to user feedback on future designs.
David Assaf III W5XU, VP8RXU ?
On Tue, Mar 14, 2023 at 12:53?PM Steve Wedge, W1ES/4 via <w1es= [email protected]> wrote: I can't remember but there could be something on Garey's CD.? There are several revisions of the schematic.
Steve Wedge, W1ES/4
Time flies like an arrow.? Fruit flies like a banana.
Sent with secure email.
------- Original Message -------
On Tuesday, March 14th, 2023 at 1:11 PM, Bill Leonard N0CU < billincolo73@...> wrote:
Steve,
Is this change documented anywhere?
--
Bill N0CU
|
Re: What are the differances between the T4X and the T4XB
I can't remember but there could be something on Garey's CD.? There are several revisions of the schematic.
Steve Wedge, W1ES/4
Time flies like an arrow.? Fruit flies like a banana.
Sent with secure email.
------- Original Message -------
On Tuesday, March 14th, 2023 at 1:11 PM, Bill Leonard N0CU <billincolo73@...> wrote:
Steve,
Is this change documented anywhere?
--
Bill N0CU
|
Re: What are the differances between the T4X and the T4XB
Steve,
Is this change documented anywhere?
--
Bill N0CU
|
Re: What are the differances between the T4X and the T4XB
On Tue, 14 Mar 2023, Steve Wedge, W1ES/4 via groups.io wrote: I have discovered a ?subgroup? of the T-4X, in the last production of them: a change in the CW key circuit that allows SSB operation without needing key closure if the KEY socket has a plug in it. The signal paths were changed somewhat and some switching diodes added. Definitely an worthwhile enhancement. The is in keeping with the comment Rob made about whether the engineers ever use the radios they design on the air. -- Richard Loken VE6BSV : "...underneath those tuques we wear, Athabasca, Alberta Canada : our heads are naked!" ** rlloken@... ** : - Arthur Black
|
Re: What are the differances between the T4X and the T4XB
I assumed the PTO differences would be obvious.?
I have discovered a ¡°subgroup¡± of the T-4X, in the last production of them: a change in the CW key circuit that allows SSB operation without needing key closure if the KEY socket has a plug in it. The signal paths were changed somewhat and some switching diodes added.?
I have a very late T-4X with this circuit and it certainly is nice to not need to either close the key or remove the key from the socket when using on SSB.?
73,
Steve Wedge, W1ES/4
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Sent from Proton Mail for iOS
On Mon, Mar 13, 2023 at 20:06, Jim Shorney < jimNU0C@...> wrote:
Answered by K4OAH.
/g/DRAKE-RADIO/message/1617
/g/DRAKE-RADIO/message/8515
/g/DRAKE-RADIO/message/3658
73
-Jim
NU0C
On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 12:18:47 -0600 (MDT)
"Richard Loken" <rlloken@...> wrote:
> The subject says it all: what did Drake change when they went from the
> T4X and the T4XB? Was there a T4XA?
|
Re: DRAKE MN-2000 Ceramic wafer replacement/repair for Antenna Selector Switch help?
On Mon, Mar 13, 2023 at 07:31 PM, Paul Kraemer wrote:
Here is link to pictures of the switch.? Wish they were better pictures but that is all I have.? Ignore the paint finish pictures at end.? I also refinished the cabinet.
Paul K0UYA
On 3/13/2023 4:06 PM, Peter A wrote
Peter et al
I got the message(s) and I can help with that switch replacement.? I was able to find an inexpensive switch on ebay and "adapt" it to repair the MN200 to "better than new".? The switch is basically Soviet or Eastern Europe manufacture, rugged, fits same space.? The only mod to the switch is remove extra wafers from the back end and mount it backwards in the tuner.? You can cut the switch shaft short or leave it to protrude through the rear panel.? A shaft coupling is used to mate the Drake selector knob shaft extension to the new switch.? Both the switch shaft and the selector shaft are flatted and do not line up.? To ensure a sturdy coupling you need to drill a new set screw hole in the coupling to compensate for the alignment.? That makes the set screws land on the flatted shafts.? I made my own coupling from a short piece of 1/2" dia aluminum rod.? EASY and it stays indexed even if the screws are loose.
The Drake switch had back to back contacts on a single wafer.? The new switch I used two wafers wired together..
If the switch can't be found on ebay I have an extra.
I 'll find the picture file and hopefully someone can put them on the reflector archives.
IT IS A NICE REPAIR---NO KLUDGE.
Paul K0UYA
Paul, that sounds fantastic.? Anyhow, I like a challenge so wouldn't want an exact replacement anyway.? HIHI.? If you remember the ebay seller that'd be helpful also.
appreciate everything.
Thank you Paul.
Peter
VE9KX
|
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? Thanks for the pictures Paul.? I will do my best to find the same type of switch online.? Hopefully will have this antenna tuner operational again.
73
Peter VE9KX
|
Jim,
Correct.? My TR-7 came with no noise blanker.? The woodpecker forced me to buy one.? The dummy board remains.? Thanks for pointing out that the dummy board was not part of the extender board set.
73, Tom, AG9X
On Mon, Mar 13, 2023 at 6:57?PM Jim Shorney < jimNU0C@...> wrote:
The NB-7 dummy board, a.k.a. IF Switching Board, was not a part of the Drake extender kit. It was only used for TR7s that did not have the NB-7 option.
73
-Jim
NU0C
|
Re: What are the differances between the T4X and the T4XB
Garey K4OAH was the founder of this group. He probably forgot more about the 4-Line rigs that the rest of us will ever know. He was a true gentleman and is sorely missed. You can find his postings in the archive of this group and earlier in the Drakelist online archives. His XYL still sells the reference discs that he created. 73 -Jim NU0C On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 21:28:58 -0600 (MDT) "Richard Loken" <rlloken@...> wrote: On Mon, 13 Mar 2023, Jim Shorney wrote:
Answered by K4OAH.
Not too many changes at all. The bit about the striped crystals is hard
to get my head around but my R4 says it doesn't much matter.
Those messages accidently explained why I see R4s and T4Xs with a differant
(B line) knob than on my R4.
|
Gary WB6OGD
David
Jim Shorney