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?Perhaps someone here can point me in the correct direction. I have an ID1 and am trying to?get it setup for DD, I have setup the static ip with the correct information, the cs settings are correct I believe, I have the wireless connection disabled, and the LAN connection enabled. Everytime I tune the radio to the dedicated DD repeater as soon as I turn the TX INH off the unit starts transmitting and receiving wildly, red and green lights going haywire. I have gotten to try to ping the gateway 10.0.0.1 and what I get back is reply from my static address and destination host is unreachable, packets= 4 sent, 4 received, 0 lost. I have tried almost everything except dynamite, hopefully someone here can show the dummy what is up. It should be noted that this is also a new repeater system also, so I guess I am asking could it be on the repeater end and not in my equipment. Like incomplete or faulty DHCP information? Thanks in advance Al KF5SMH |
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Dean Gibson AE7Q
开云体育The ID-1 will transmit everything it sees on the local network, including traffic never intended for 10.0.0.1.? You usually need to isolate the ID-1 from the local network with a router.You haven't mentioned anything about the local network your ID-1 is connected to (eg, IP addresses and netmask).? That would help. -- Dean On 2014-06-02 16:49, [email protected]
[D-STAR_23cm] wrote:
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开云体育Al, ? It’s very possible that the repeater may be misconfigured, as well as your local configuration. ? As Dean indicated, you will want to isolate local Ethernet traffic to keep from overwhelming the link. Most people do this by connecting a router (configured with the dedicated IP address). The router then can provide DHCP to local computers. ? Also, DD communication requires a pretty strong signal. You might want to get pretty close to the repeater and retry your testing. To a degree, if you can’t physically see the repeater antenna, you aren’t going to be able to use DD. Not quite that strict, but close. Although in a plane, you can get 50+ miles coverage. ? If you can test against a known working repeater, that might help. ? ? Ed WA4YIH ? From: D-STAR_23cm@... [mailto:D-STAR_23cm@...]
Sent: Monday, June 2, 2014 7:50 PM To: D-STAR_23cm@... Subject: [D-STAR_23cm] Unable to establish connection ? ? ?Perhaps someone here can point me in the correct direction. I have an ID1 and am trying to?get it setup for DD, I have setup the static ip with the correct information, the cs settings are correct I believe, I have the wireless connection disabled, and the LAN connection enabled. Everytime I tune the radio to the dedicated DD repeater as soon as I turn the TX INH off the unit starts transmitting and receiving wildly, red and green lights going haywire. I have gotten to try to ping the gateway 10.0.0.1 and what I get back is reply from my static address and destination host is unreachable, packets= 4 sent, 4 received, 0 lost. I have tried almost everything except dynamite, hopefully someone here can show the dummy what is up. It should be noted that this is also a new repeater system also, so I guess I am asking could it be on the repeater end and not in my equipment. Like incomplete or faulty DHCP information? Thanks in advance Al KF5SMH
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Dean Gibson AE7Q
开云体育An interesting addition to these "line-of-sight" issues with the ID-1:Late last year, I found out that a group () in my area is setting up an amateur radio data network on 5.9GHz.? The map (and Google Earth) indicated I might have a line of sight to one of HamWAN's antennas on a local county EOC's radio tower (5 miles away).? Since the EOC also had an ID-1, I arranged for a test using the ID-1 on FM.? That voice test showed almost no noise, so that at least gave me hope for 5.9GHz, and I bought the radio ($100) and a 36" 31dBi gain dish antenna ($100).? That has been spectacularly successful, and I have a solid 5Mbps connection at -75dBm to the EOC and to the Internet via the amateur 44.x.x.x network:? Ok, so whetted by the smell of success, I decided to try accessing the ID-1 in DD mode to the EOC.? At the EOC the antenna used by the ID-1 is at 70' (the 5.9GHz antenna was at 150'). ? At my house, the higher vertical antenna in the background is a Diamond X-6000A tri-bander (10dBi gain @ 1.2GHz), used by my ID-1.? Result:? 99% of PINGs fail.? Switching the ID-1 at the EOC to another antenna at 100' gives only marginally better performance:? about 98% of PINGs fail.? Sometimes I will see a failure rate of "only" 85%, but that is rare.? We live in the Pacific Northwest, and we do have a "few" tall trees, even in dense urban areas.? When the wind blows, I see changes in signal strength. So, what is the difference between the success of 5.9GHz and the failure of 1.2GHz, to the same site?? The wireless protocol used by the MikroTik 5.9GHz radios includes an aggressive error correction and retry protocol, whereas the ID-1 is like a piece of Ethernet cable, and thus relies on the standard TCP/IP retry mechanism.? The TCP/IP protocols, while "unreliable" in the technical sense of the term, require a higher overall reliability than a typical raw wireless connection. What this says (and I was a bit surprised to note this), is that sites considering using ID-1 radios for data communications, may find that even with the tighter siting requirements of 5.9GHz, that the latter may be more successful (whether or not part of HamWAN).? In addition to being a lower-cost radio/antenna combo with a much higher data rate, the MikroTik 5SHPn radios offer a built-in router, which can obviate the need for a separate router.? Finally, the 5SHPn? radio (suitable for outdoor exposure) is attached to the dish antenna mast, and gets power over the Ethernet cable (PoE), making cable lengths much less critical. On 2014-06-04 15:29, 'Woodrick, Ed'
ewoodrick@... [D-STAR_23cm] wrote:
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Al, As a matter of interest, I can make a DD connection with our repeater over a distance of about 9 miles. ?The repeater is connected to a Comet 1.2 GHz vertical at the top of a 250 ft. tower with 7/8 inch Heliax. ?At home, I have a Comet 16-element yagi mounted about 8 ft. above ground level. ?The yagi is fed with 30 ft. of LMR-400.
I do not have line-of-site access to the repeater, as there are several hills separating me from it. ?The received signal puts up two bars on the ID-1 display. ?Most of the time, the download data rate is about 65 kbps, but occasionally it drops well below this.
My netbook connects directly to the ID-1, but I have experimented with a router and three local computers to see what would happen if we tried to support several computers at an emergency site. ?It worked, but of course service was much slower.
I mention this, not to object to Ed's good advice, but just to say that in some circumstances, you can make a connection work, even though it probably shouldn't. ?I'd follow his advice and take another look at the setup of the radio.
Brad ?KV5V |
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Just for reference, I've made solid DD connections at 45 miles using 1 watt and a
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mobile antenna on the car while parked. It was line of sight, but other than that, nothing special. Don't give up. Arnold KQ6DI ----- Original Message -----
From: "Brad Rehm bradrehm@... [D-STAR_23cm]" <D-STAR_23cm@...> To: <D-STAR_23cm@...> Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 1:28 AM Subject: Re: [D-STAR_23cm] Unable to establish connection Al, |
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Good Morning! First Thanks to all who replied, I appreciate it very much and what I figure out here will be passed along to the other hams on the new?1.2 system. Just to answer and acknowledge some of the responses: Subnet is: 255.0.0.0 IP IS: FROM MY REGISTRATION INFO PAGE DNS: 10.0.0.1 Voice works well on low power with?2 bars outgoing and 3 incoming. Another ham is at 10.5 miles from repeater?and over rugged bluffs and mesas in between, and voice is excellent both directions, with r2d2 only occasionally.? I have decided to wait until I am certain that the system is ready completely before I attempt this again. Thanks again for all the info! I have no plans of giving up, this is too much fun! AL M KF5SMH |
Hi Dean, (Missed you at SeaPac...) Are you still running an omni with the ID-1 and comparing it to a 30 dBi highly directional BBQ disk on 5.9 GHz? I still believe that the various terrain propagation issues in our region strongly favor a directional antenna... 73 Bill, WA7NWP What this says (and I was a bit surprised to note this), is that sites considering using ID-1 radios for data communications, may find that even with the tighter siting requirements of 5.9GHz, that the latter may be more successful (whether or not part of HamWAN). In addition to being a lower-cost radio/antenna combo with a much higher data rate, the MikroTik 5SHPn radios offer a built-in router, which can obviate the need for a separate router. Finally, the 5SHPn radio (suitable for outdoor exposure) is attached to the dish antenna mast, and gets power over the Ethernet cable (PoE), making cable lengths much less critical. |
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Dean Gibson AE7Q
开云体育On 2014-06-10 09:55, Bill Vodall
wa7nwp@... [D-STAR_23cm] wrote:
So, what is the difference between the success of 5.9GHz and the failure of 1.2GHz, to the same site? The wireless protocol used by the MikroTik 5.9GHz radios includes an aggressive error correction and retry protocol, whereas the ID-1 is like a piece of Ethernet cable, and thus relies on the standard TCP/IP retry mechanism. The TCP/IP protocols, while "unreliable" in the technical sense of the term, require a higher overall reliability than a typical raw wireless connection.Hi Dean, (Missed you at SeaPac...) Are you still running an omni with the ID-1 and comparing it to a 30 dBi highly directional BBQ disk on 5.9 GHz? I still believe that the various terrain propagation issues in our region strongly favor a directional antenna... Bill, WA7NWP Yes, because one of the advantages (in my opinion) of the ID-1 is using a (10dBi) omni antenna, and being able to contact several different stations at different azimuths (eg, KB7CNN 35 miles away with the ID-1 low-power setting).? If I'm going to use a directional antenna, then why not use 5.9GHz??? No, I'm not going to run a rotator.? For the price of an antenna rotator and supporting structure, I can buy several MikroTik/antenna combos, with much higher reliability. |
Dean> So, what is the difference between the success of 5.9GHz and the failure of I bet your 5.9G radios would 'fail' if you tried to do that with them... Your suggestion that the ID-1's are failing isn't totally fair as you have it configured for a different use case... If I'm going to use a directional antenna, then why not use 5.9Ghz??? Maybe the 10+ years newer technology of Mikrotik has totally obsoleted the ID-1's... Then again maybe the 10 Watts and 1/4 the frequency would give some situations where an ID-1 would work when 5.9Ghz won't. That window of usefulness for the ID-1 is certainly diminishing. Bill |
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Dean Gibson AE7Q
On 2014-06-10 17:25, Bill Vodall wa7nwp@... [D-STAR_23cm] wrote:
...I bet your 5.9G radios would 'fail' if you tried to do that with them... Your suggestion that the ID-1's are failing isn't totally fair as you have it configured for a different use case... I'm not attacking the ID-1 radios; I'm simply saying that if one is going to consider the ID-1 radios for a fixed installation with a directional antenna, a MikroTik radio might be a better choice. If I'm going to use a directional antenna, then why not use 5.9Ghz???Maybe the 10+ years newer technology of Mikrotik has totally obsoleted the ID-1's... I've asked if there is a common (and open) IP tunneling protocol with the same error correction mechanism that is in most wireless radios. That would put the ID-1 is a very good position, in my opinion. Alas, it appears that there is no such animal. |
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Dean Gibson AE7Q
开云体育On 2014-06-10 09:55, Bill Vodall wa7nwp@...
[D-STAR_23cm] wrote:
Are you still running an omni with the ID-1 and comparing it to a 30 dBi highly directional BBQ disk on 5.9 GHz? I still believe that the various terrain propagation issues in our region strongly favor a directional antenna... Bill, WA7NWP And, someone loaned me a 1.2GHz 21-element Yagi, and I pointed it at the same 1.2GHz site that has the successful 5.9GHz link, and tried to PING the site.? Nothing.? The 10dBi omni antenna (albeit about 10 ft higher) does better;? at least with the omni, I get an occasional ping back. |
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Erik Westgard
开云体育After a decade of experience we can say that RF wise 1.2G (DV or FM) and ?440M (DV or FM) ?behave similarly.? So if you can reach the repeater on DV (440) you have a path.? ??Any terrain will block your signal.?? You can also use a software tool to check paths.? 1.2 will not as a rule bounce all over like 2m does- if there is a hill in the way you are probably blocked.? DD is a fairly wide signal.? ? If you have a known path and the 1.2 DD radio does not “see” the other end - callsigns blinking on the panel – tx and rx lights flashing, you have diagnosed an antenna/feedline/settings problem at one or both ends.? (The ID-1 DD usually transmits a signal when you change frequencies to see if it sees anything at the other end almost regardless of settings) ?The RF side of DD is very well designed for 15 mile paths but the 1.2 antennas and feedlines/connectors are fussy.? ??At my house I have 60 feet of LMR to a chimney mount GP-98 @22 feet and I can reach 3-4 of our 7 DD “repeaters” regularly- with an average range of 14 miles.? They are all at >200 feet HAAT.? Several are blocked by hills, but from the roof I can see all the sites I can reach.? ? A good test is to put a 1.2 mag mount on your car, and take the ID-1 and a laptop and drive to where you can see the repeater out the car window.? I did this a while back when we had a sick repeater antenna, which is very common on the Comet GP95s, which develop a base wobble which leads to the bolt falling out and rotation and the feedline shearing off.? ?(Use a hose clamp over the bolt).? ? ? A science experiment we are dying to try out – on the same building rooftop site, what is the usefulness of a 1.2 DD “node” with an omni vs a 5G 802.11 type “node” with an omni – both would be running OLSR.? We all know that the dish to dish, the line of sight the performance of 5G radios is lovely, but for real world EMCOM work which is better.? |
开云体育Howdy,Agreed. I live beside the Sea and we have quite salty air, we generally modify all the bases before putting them up by cutting a slot in the base, 90 degrees to the bolt, then put a stainless steel hose clamp over that (above the base), maybe the Comets don't have the same space above the bolt as our Watson/Diamond's do. Set your "Hello" interval on OLSR to be 30 seconds or higher or you will see your throughput drop significantly. Cheers John EI7IG |
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Dean Gibson AE7Q
开云体育On 2014-06-19 05:11, 'Erik Westgard'
ewestgard@... [D-STAR_23cm] wrote:
? Your router attached to the ID-1 may do that, but the ID-1 doesn't. |