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Query - any D-Star 1240-1300 DD networks still in use?
All:
I'm working on a future story for my newsletter () about the failed promise of the Icom ID-1 system. Part 1 I'm aware that there were (or still are) "ID-1 networks" in: * Minneapolis / St. Paul, MN * Dallas, TX * Vancouver, BC Anyone on this list from those groups? Any others that you know about? Any other significant use of ID-1s outside of Japan? Part 2 Any thoughts from this group about the "ID-1" capability in the Icom IC-9700 (1240-1300 MHz, inclusion of D-Star "DD" mode)? Part 3 Does anyone here have any contacts within Icom relevant to the ID-1? Thanks, Steve Stroh N8GNJ -- Steve Stroh stevestroh@... Editor Zero Retries Newsletter - |
On 7/31/21 02:30, Steve Stroh wrote:
All:Back in 2013,2012 and 2010 DCC's i outlined a bunch of experiments we did with someID1's.? I had a 'grand' plan for using them as a longer range "Last Mile" network for a while. There are two High sites at the East and West of the county. The plan was to link them with a 5.8Ghz backbone, with an ID1 for Access and 2.4/5.8Ghz for egress at multiple locations, but a number of factors led to the project not getting completed, site access, the potential NWDR UDRX, and my inability to get others excited about the project scuppered it eventually. The terrain around here is quite hilly, the radios quite expensive and the density of Amateur Radio operators too low to really make 1.2Ghz viable. Regards John EI7IG
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Steve, the 1.2 GHz repeater in the Walburg system is still on the air.? The DD repeater is there too, and it used to provide access to the internet.? Haven't done that in a while, though. Brad, KV5V Salado On Fri, Jul 30, 2021 at 8:30 PM Steve Stroh <steve.stroh@...> wrote: All: |
Thanks Stephen! On Tue, Aug 24, 2021 at 22:46 Stephen Smith <radiodriven@...> wrote: Steve, --
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The Dstar 1.2 g system in Las Vegas NV is still very much a thing. W7AES is the system Club call. AES had the Dstar Stack here in Las Vegas for years, it's neen under the purview of the WA7HXO Repeater Group. Better known as the Las Vegas Repeater Assoc.? " LVRA" or "HXO" ? Respectfully, Terry Gillard - NX7R TTG Communications Co. Hytera DMR Authorized Dealer. & So. Nevada Powerwerx Dealer.
WRBM638 - Unit # 4
Mobile-
702 491-3378
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Sent from the NX7R ================================ |
开云体育The Atlanta Radio Club has a D-STAR stack in downtown Atlanta (W4DOC) and a D-STAR stack on top of Stone Mountain (WX4GPB), just east of town, Both are full stacks (A,B,C,D,DD) Details at?Rob Osattin, KI4UTY
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All:
Here is the list of all the continuing D-Star DD systems still operating on 1240-1300 MHz that I was notified of: Atlanta, GA ?
Dallas, TX
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Huntsville, AL
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Las Vegas, NV
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Minneapolis / St. Paul, MN
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New Mexico (cities unstated)
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Vancouver, BC (impressive customized “true” repeater)
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Walburg (Georgetown / Austin), TX
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Washington, DC (for support of annual Marine Corps Marathon, being displaced by AREDN nodes) Thanks very much for the feedback! This will be mentioned in my newsletter Zero Retries Issue 0009 to be published 2021-09-10. Thanks, Steve N8GNJ --- Steve Stroh?stevestroh@... Editor
Zero Retries Newsletter -?
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开云体育I thought someone else would pick up these You could contact the sponsoring organizations if you want more details ? NV4FM ?? W4HFH ? W3AGB ? ? Regards ? Ken ? ? ? ? ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Steve Stroh
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2021 6:38 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [D-STAR23cm] Query - any D-Star 1240-1300 DD networks still in use? ? All: ? Dallas, TX ? Huntsville, AL ? Las Vegas, NV ? Minneapolis / St. Paul, MN ? New Mexico (cities unstated) ? Vancouver, BC (impressive customized “true” repeater) ? Walburg (Georgetown / Austin), TX ? Washington, DC (for support of annual Marine Corps Marathon, being displaced by AREDN nodes) Editor Zero Retries Newsletter -? ? |
Please add W8DTW in Westland, Michigan. It is a full stack. Located 15 miles west of downtown Detroit. Shanon KA8SPW On Mon, Aug 30, 2021, 6:37 PM Steve Stroh <steve.stroh@...> wrote:
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Folks: Thanks for all the information about D-Star ID-1 / DD / 1240-1300 MHz repeaters and other infrastructure, especially the more detailed responses I received off-list. I appreciate the degree of detail you furnished, but that was a bit beyond my needs for the article I'm working on. In my query, I only wanted to demonstrate that there are still pockets of ID-1 usage in the US, to justify the POSSIBILITY (at this moment, only a wild fantasy of mine) that there could be some project started to create an equivalent of an ID-1 as an open source project and not wait for Icom. Here's the article that will appear in the 2021-09-10 issue of my newsletter Zero Retries (Zero Retries 0009). If you'd like to subscribe and follow along with this fantasy, you can subscribe (it's free) at . Thanks again for the help! Steve Stroh N8GNJ Create an Equivalent of the Icom ID-1 Radio Using 2021 Technology ?was developed in the early 2000s. The ID-1 included Icom’s D-Star Digital Data (DD) mode - data rate of 128 kbps using a 100 kHz channel on the 1240-1300 MHz band. The ID-1 had a transmit power output of 10 watts. Icom also offered a “DD mode” repeater module (also required a D-Star Repeater Controller), but in truth, it wasn’t really a repeater, but was more of a digipeater (didn’t transmit and receive full duplex).?It was a reasonable effort for the time, and the capability of Icom at the time. The ID-1 was hobbled by poor networking implementation, and very high price. Although Icom has recently discontinued the ID-1, the DD mode was continued in the??radio. There are occasional hints and rumors that Icom will release a new ID-1 / DD / 1240 - 1300 MHz repeater module. The D-Star DD mode - ID-1 user radios and ID-1 repeaters on 1240 - 1300 MHz, are still in use in a number of areas. I put out a query to the?开云体育 D-STAR23cm mailing list?and was told that there are active D-Star DD repeaters in these areas:
(See the list for details on these systems.) The networking capability of the ID-1 and the ID-1 repeater was… less than optimum, even for the early 2000s. That’s perhaps understandable given that Icom is a radio company, not a networking company. We can do much better in 2021, even embedding something as “simple” as a $35 Raspberry Pi 3 (or?). The Vancouver, BC D-Star DD users implemented some?. In researching this, I was reminded by several correspondents that the D-Star specification is open… albeit mostly written in Japanese. That’s not the same as “closed” or “proprietary to Icom”. It just means that the details of implementation are a bit harder to discern than in a specification that was developed in English. If this effort were to get some momentum, there are many Japanese Amateur Radio Operators that are, if not fluent in English, at least conversant in English. I’ve met a number of them at Digital Communications Conferences and have had delightful conversations with them. One source of contact is the?. Using 2021 technology, it seems reasonable that an open source equivalent of the ID-1 / DD mode on 1240-1300 MHz could be developed. One primary cost reduction that could be made would be to not include a voice subsystem (no codec, no microphone, no speaker) or a front panel unit. With ample compute power, perhaps faster data speeds could be achieved (similar to New Packet Radio, which uses the same 100 kHz channel size to achieve 500 kbps) and incorporate forward error correction… and of course, much better networking. Steve Stroh stevestroh@... Editor Zero Retries Newsletter - |
Although for my article, I wasn't going to attempt to detail
callsigns, frequencies, etc. of the ID-1 / DD systems that are still online in 2021, the Wiki capability of this groups.io list might be a great place to do that. If I had edit capabilities of this list's wiki - /g/D-STAR23cm/wiki - I would have tried to do so. Thanks, Steve N8GNJ On Tue, Aug 31, 2021 at 4:15 PM Steve Stroh via groups.io <steve.stroh@...> wrote: <snip> -- Steve Stroh stevestroh@... Editor Zero Retries Newsletter - |
<chuckle>
OK, apparently you guys are going to dribble in new info right up until this article publishes :-) So be it :-) Here's the LATEST list of cities with D-Star DD repeater systems on 1240-1300 MHz: Atlanta, GA Dallas, TX Detroit, MI Huntsville, AL Las Vegas, NV Minneapolis / St. Paul, MN New Mexico (cities unstated) Orlando, FL Vancouver, BC Walburg (Georgetown / Austin), TX Washington, DC Wausau, WI (Wish I could say Seattle area, but I've had no confirmation of any DD system online there.) Thanks, Steve N8GNJ -- Steve Stroh stevestroh@... Editor Zero Retries Newsletter - |
erwestgard
开云体育I think you have to look at the use case.? We support the largest outdoor sporting event in Minnesota.? The use case was scalable web application access – our home made database on a browser for 10 users at once across two cities.? The new (2021) use case is video and conferencing and dashboards.? 23CM is still line of sight.? Increasingly, (non ham) emergency communications are web and cloud based (see WebEOC, Noggin, Zello, RC Care etc.? Many forms of video conferencing use SSH/SSL.? Much public web traffic is encrypted.? ?Many agencies are concerned about PII disclosure.? ? So if I need say six megabits line of sight, I can buy a pair of used Ubiquiti M5-HP radios for $36.99 each add some antennas and using Part 15 I’m good for all hazard all app support.? ? You could build an ID-1 replacement after vast effort, but why?? ? Erik, NY9D ? ? |
Steve, Stafford VA has 23cm DV and DD. Not sure HOW it’s used but it does exist. Locally, KN2K / Ray and I tested our 9700 DV on 23cm simplex, my 16 el yagi at 30’ and his 11 ele yagi at 6’ (basically ground level) and had excellent results with no dropouts at 8 miles. Next test will be DD with same configuration. I expect similar results. I agree that this band and mode are worthy of development and use. I can see in some rural areas where AREDN is not practical or achievable that sufficient tower access is accessible and distance requirements could be realized using DD on 23cm for networking and file exchanges in local EmComm situations. Pete KD4QNA |
There's actually a LOT more. If you look at the IC-9700, you'll find quite a few D-STAR with 1.2 DD. I believe that there's well over a half dozen for GA alone.
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It looks as if the G3 update is what killed the Repeater's Internet connectivity. I haven't been able to get it to work since then. But that doesn't mean that it can't be done, all you need to do is to put a ID-1 or IC-9700 connected to the repeater and use it for the connectivity. D-RATS works great over 1.2 GHz DD. It needs a few tweaks to optimize throughput, but you can transmit quite a bit of data. The file transfer portion of D-RATS starts to realistically allow multi MB files to be transferred. The IC-9700 is also nice in that you can have DD on one side and DV on the other side of the radio. -----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Steve Stroh via groups.io Sent: Wednesday, September 1, 2021 1:20 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [D-STAR23cm] Query - any D-Star 1240-1300 DD networks still in use? <chuckle> OK, apparently you guys are going to dribble in new info right up until this article publishes :-) So be it :-) Here's the LATEST list of cities with D-Star DD repeater systems on 1240-1300 MHz: Atlanta, GA Dallas, TX Detroit, MI Huntsville, AL Las Vegas, NV Minneapolis / St. Paul, MN New Mexico (cities unstated) Orlando, FL Vancouver, BC Walburg (Georgetown / Austin), TX Washington, DC Wausau, WI (Wish I could say Seattle area, but I've had no confirmation of any DD system online there.) Thanks, Steve N8GNJ -- Steve Stroh stevestroh@... Editor Zero Retries Newsletter - |
Erik, Good point. If ppl already have 9700s for other purposes, though, and are looking for another use, then 23cm might be considered since it's already "in the box". That's what some of us locally have had in mind. But, otherwise, your Ubiquiti approach makes sense. I use them everyday for A-B or A-B-C internet connectivity. Still it all depends?on the location and application. Pete KD4QNA |