|
At one time someone published a file which is not on this yahoo group.
The subject was????? how to use 2? ?ID-1s without?a repeater and connect one to the internet and the other being able to access the web.
Does anyone have info to accomplish this ?
Leon? K8ZAG
|
IIRC you just do it..
Radio A gets connected to a routers LAN port. Radio B gets connected to the laptop LAN port.
A dhcp session will be initiated by the laptop, travel over star to the router which will then respond with the relevant details.
Normal half duplex traffic can then happen such as web surfing and console sessions. Streaming is not possible due to the aggressive nature of UDP but some have said it works.
At one time someone published a file which is not on this yahoo group.
The subject was????? how to use 2? ?ID-1s without?a repeater and connect one to the internet and the other being able to access the web.
Does anyone have info to accomplish this ?
Leon? K8ZAG
|
I think you may be thinking about Bent Pipe repeating with two ID-1s.?
The link below should have some information.?
73, Mark, WB9QZB
| | | | | | Thinking of creating a website? Google Sites is a free and easy way to create and share webpages. | | | | Preview by Yahoo | | | ??
|
Well, two different things.
Not using a DD mode access point and a "bent pipe" relay.
You can just hook up a pair of ID-1s to make a link. One hooks to your
router ( make sure is in auto sensing port) and the other at the remote
site connected to a computer.
Using four ID-1s you can build a two step path using two of the ID-1s at
a location that is reachable from both far ID-1s. Just connect those two
middle ID-1s to a auto sensing switch and make sure that the two pairs
of ID-1s are on different frequencies and have the proper call signs in
their headers. We used this in the Marine Corps Marathon to relay to
distant aid stations that could not get the access point while dropping
service at the relay point. Was not really proper for us to call it a
bent pipe as the signals were decoded and recoded at the relay point.
But was a convenient short hand for us. Real bent pipe just has some
antennas, filters and amplifiers at the relay point.
Also works fine without an access point and just a router on the end
with internet point. Access point needed when you have more than one
distant station otherwise your internet connected router needs an ID-1
for each out station.
We created those files you referenced when we were getting ready to use
the ID-1s for the Marine Corps Marathon back when the ID-1s were first
for sale. Looks like we did not set them up to be world readable as we
have been getting weekly requests for access this past month. Need to
look at making site openly readable. Was just a place the wiki files
were stashed before the currently supported NCR D-STAR Association site
was created.
73, tom w7sua ( former n4zpt)
co-owner of google site referenced below.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 1/16/2015 1:05 PM, wb9qzb_groups@... [D-STAR_23cm] wrote: I think you may be thinking about Bent Pipe repeating with two ID-1s.
The link below should have some information.
73, Mark, WB9QZB
Google Sites
Google Sites Thinking of creating a website? Google Sites is a free and easy way to create and share webpages.
View on sites.google.com
Preview by Yahoo
|
Hi All,
I just changed the permissions of
so that any one with the below links can view the site. It was created
just to stash the wiki when we had to move it. there is a note on the
main page with a pointer to the current NCR D-STAR Association web site
which happens to be down for maintenance this weekend.
73, tom w7sua
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 1/16/2015 1:05 PM, wb9qzb_groups@... [D-STAR_23cm] wrote: I think you may be thinking about Bent Pipe repeating with two ID-1s.
The link below should have some information.
73, Mark, WB9QZB
Google Sites
Google Sites Thinking of creating a website? Google Sites is a free and easy way to create and share webpages.
View on sites.google.com
Preview by Yahoo
|
Leon,
?
Two ID-1s on the same channel just act as a Ethernet Hub. What goes in one side comes out the other.
?
And that’s a very important thing to remember, many Ethernet connections have a lot of background traffic occurring on them. One of the most common scenarios
is that you have two PCs that you dedicate to this function and they stay powered off most of the time. You power them up for a special event and find that the network throughput is dismal. Then you find out that they are downloading updates.
?
Ed WA4YIH
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: D-STAR_23cm@... [mailto:D-STAR_23cm@...]
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 10:58 AM
To: D-STAR_23cm@...
Subject: [D-STAR_23cm] ID-1 to ID-1 and internet connection
?
?
At one time someone published a file which is not on this yahoo group.
?
The subject was????? how to use 2? ?ID-1s without?a repeater and connect one to the internet and the other being able to access the web.
?
Does anyone have info to accomplish this ?
?
Leon? K8ZAG
|
Yep. For the Marine Corps Marathon we instruct operators that aid station computers are completely updated. Them say to turn off all updates for the race weekend. Otherwise the network or link comes to a complete stop. Discovered that the first year we used them. Lucky the offending laptop was just a short walk away. We have also considered putting in firewall rules that only allow traffic outbound to the runner database but that turned out to not be necessary as the volunteers followed the guidelines. 73, tom w7sua On 1/18/2015 2:16 PM, 'Woodrick, Ed' ewoodrick@... [D-STAR_23cm] wrote: Leon,
Two ID-1s on the same channel just act as a Ethernet Hub. What goes in one side comes out the other.
And that’s a very important thing to remember, many Ethernet connections have a lot of background traffic occurring on them. One of the most common scenarios is that you have two PCs that you dedicate to this function and they stay powered off most of the time. You power them up for a special event and find that the network throughput is dismal. Then you find out that they are downloading updates.
Ed WA4YIH
From: D-STAR_23cm@... [mailto:D-STAR_23cm@...]
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 10:58 AM
To: D-STAR_23cm@...
Subject: [D-STAR_23cm] ID-1 to ID-1 and internet connection
At one time someone published a file which is not on this yahoo group.
The subject was how to use 2 ID-1s without a repeater and connect one to the internet and the other being able to access the web.
Does anyone have info to accomplish this ?
Leon K8ZAG
|
Otherwise the network or link comes to a complete stop. . We have also considered putting in
firewall rules that only allow traffic outbound to the runner database
but that turned out to not be necessary as the volunteers followed the guidelines. I've heard it suggested that simply hooking the ID-1 to a network switch helps prevent a lot of network traffic from hitting the airwaves. A hub that sends everything everywhere would be a bad idea. Bill
|
A switch can help out a little, but a router is suggested. But even with the router, you still have the issues of other applications hogging the channel.
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: D-STAR_23cm@... [mailto:D-STAR_23cm@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2015 12:49 PM
To: D-STAR_23cm@...
Subject: Re: [D-STAR_23cm] ID-1 to ID-1 and internet connection
?
?
> Otherwise the network or link comes to a complete stop. . We have also considered putting in
> firewall rules that only allow traffic outbound to the runner database
> but that turned out to not be necessary as the volunteers followed the guidelines.
I've heard it suggested that simply hooking the ID-1 to a network
switch helps prevent a lot of network traffic from hitting the
airwaves. A hub that sends everything everywhere would be a bad
idea.
Bill
|
The configuration I use allows only wanted traffic between two ID-1
radios:
You need a router with each ID-1 that can do NAT (network address
translation) AND simple port forwarding (or a "DMZ computer"
function).? I use an old Netgear WGT624v2 (which does both), and is
spec'd to take 12vDC but runs just fine (as do my other Netgear
switches and routers) from a RigRunner supplying 14.2vDC.
Say computer #1 is on the 192.168.1.0/24 network with address
192.168.1.10:
I configure router #1 to have a LAN (local) address of? 192.168.1.11
(these are examples, pick your own IP addresses in the same
network), and a WAN (remote) address of 10.0.0.21 (netmask
255.0.0.0).? The router then becomes a gateway to all 10.x.x.x
addresses.
?I configure computer #1 to route only 10.x.x.x/8 traffic to
192.168.1.11 (the router's LAN address)? There are a couple ways to
do this:
- Use the ROUTE command at the Windows command line to add
192.168.1.11 as a gateway to the 10.x.x.x/8 network.? Type just
"route" at the Windows command line to learn the settings (in
Windows 7, this even displays an example).? I think the correct
command in this case is "ROUTE ADD 10.0.0.0 MASK 255.0.0.0
192.168.1.11"
- Go into your Windows settings and accomplish the same thing
(this varies by version of Windows).
Connect computer #1 to a LAN port of router #1, and connect ID-1 #1
to the WAN port of router #1.
Now do exactly the same thing with computer/router/ID-1 #2, EXCEPT
give router #2 a WAN address of 10.0.0.22.
If you have computer/router/ID-1 #3, #4, etc on the RF network,
configure them similarly, giving each router a unique WAN address on
the 10.x.x.x network.
With the radios on and enabled for data transfer, from computer #1,
try to ping 10.0.0.22 (or from computer #2, try to ping 10.0.0.21).?
This needs to work before you go any further.? You may have to
enable WAN pings on the routers.
If the above works, you now have the basics of your network
functional, but you can't (yet) pass traffic between the two
computers.? To do that, you have to use the router's port forwarding
or "DMZ computer" capability.
Let's say that computer #2 has a web server (typically using port
80) that computer #1 needs to access.? You configure router #2 to
"port-forward" all WAN requests for port 80, to the address of
computer #2.? If your router has a "DMZ" function, it's even
easier:? you configure router #2 to set the "DMZ computer" to the
address of computer #2.? Now computer #1 should be able to access
the web server on computer #2, using IP address 10.0.0.22.
Using the "DMZ computer" function has both advantages as
disadvantages:? It makes ALL of computer #2 TCP/IP ports visible on
the radio network.? This helps if you want to do file sharing.
Note that all computers should address other computers on the RF
network by the remote computer's router address of
10.x.x.x.
Note also that this is not the only way to do this, but it works for
me.? and it keeps the local network traffic at each site, off the
air.
-- Dean
On 2015-01-20 10:25, 'Woodrick, Ed'
ewoodrick@... [D-STAR_23cm] wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
A
switch can help out a little, but a router is suggested. But
even with the router, you still have the issues of other
applications hogging the channel.
I've heard it suggested that simply hooking the ID-1
to a network switch helps prevent a lot of network traffic from
hitting the airwaves. A hub that sends everything everywhere
would be a bad idea.
Bill
|
Ed,
Well done!!
There are many low power routers around that can be pressed into service as you describe. I'm partial to the Alix and Soekris devices myself. A useful side effect of the router is that you can service a good many PC's from the LAN side of it. This is ideal for somewhere like a Red Cross shelter or a race control tent as it doesn't require much in the way of special skills on the users part. Indeed, you could offer WiFi to the locals from it.
With careful selection of one's firewall software (I like pFsense and m0n0Wall) one can write rules for the LAN port such that the firewall will drop all traffic _not_ going to a particular destination. This means that all your local LAN traffic remains on the LAN without added messing with PC's and never escapes to the ID-1 side. Features such as remote access can also be added so that your "network administrator" can connect to all of the routers in the field to make dynamic changes - a PPTP session over the ID-1 network would work gangbusters.
Mark
?
On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 2:41 PM, Dean Gibson AE7Q yahu.stuff@... [D-STAR_23cm] <D-STAR_23cm@...> wrote:
The configuration I use allows only wanted traffic between two ID-1
radios:
You need a router with each ID-1 that can do NAT (network address
translation) AND simple port forwarding (or a "DMZ computer"
function).? I use an old Netgear WGT624v2 (which does both), and is
spec'd to take 12vDC but runs just fine (as do my other Netgear
switches and routers) from a RigRunner supplying 14.2vDC.
Say computer #1 is on the network with address
:
I configure router #1 to have a LAN (local) address of? 192.168.1.11
(these are examples, pick your own IP addresses in the same
network), and a WAN (remote) address of 10.0.0.21 (netmask
255.0.0.0).? The router then becomes a gateway to all 10.x.x.x
addresses.
?I configure computer #1 to route only 10.x.x.x/8 traffic to
192.168.1.11 (the router's LAN address)? There are a couple ways to
do this:
- Use the ROUTE command at the Windows command line to add
192.168.1.11 as a gateway to the 10.x.x.x/8 network.? Type just
"route" at the Windows command line to learn the settings (in
Windows 7, this even displays an example).? I think the correct
command in this case is "ROUTE ADD 10.0.0.0 MASK 255.0.0.0
192.168.1.11"
- Go into your Windows settings and accomplish the same thing
(this varies by version of Windows).
Connect computer #1 to a LAN port of router #1, and connect ID-1 #1
to the WAN port of router #1.
Now do exactly the same thing with computer/router/ID-1 #2, EXCEPT
give router #2 a WAN address of 10.0.0.22.
If you have computer/router/ID-1 #3, #4, etc on the RF network,
configure them similarly, giving each router a unique WAN address on
the 10.x.x.x network.
With the radios on and enabled for data transfer, from computer #1,
try to ping 10.0.0.22 (or from computer #2, try to ping 10.0.0.21).?
This needs to work before you go any further.? You may have to
enable WAN pings on the routers.
If the above works, you now have the basics of your network
functional, but you can't (yet) pass traffic between the two
computers.? To do that, you have to use the router's port forwarding
or "DMZ computer" capability.
Let's say that computer #2 has a web server (typically using port
80) that computer #1 needs to access.? You configure router #2 to
"port-forward" all WAN requests for port 80, to the address of
computer #2.? If your router has a "DMZ" function, it's even
easier:? you configure router #2 to set the "DMZ computer" to the
address of computer #2.? Now computer #1 should be able to access
the web server on computer #2, using IP address 10.0.0.22.
Using the "DMZ computer" function has both advantages as
disadvantages:? It makes ALL of computer #2 TCP/IP ports visible on
the radio network.? This helps if you want to do file sharing.
Note that all computers should address other computers on the RF
network by the remote computer's router address of
10.x.x.x.
Note also that this is not the only way to do this, but it works for
me.? and it keeps the local network traffic at each site, off the
air.
-- Dean
On 2015-01-20 10:25, 'Woodrick, Ed'
ewoodrick@... [D-STAR_23cm] wrote:
A
switch can help out a little, but a router is suggested. But
even with the router, you still have the issues of other
applications hogging the channel.
I've heard it suggested that simply hooking the ID-1
to a network switch helps prevent a lot of network traffic from
hitting the airwaves. A hub that sends everything everywhere
would be a bad idea.
Bill
|
And while this may seem complicated to some to setup with the ID-1s, you can also start with the two routers plugged back to back or into the same switch/hub.
This allows you to make sure that the routing is configured correctly before adding the ID-1s.
?
When ready, just connect the routers to the ID-1 and everything should continue to operate.
?
Ed WA4YIH
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: D-STAR_23cm@... [mailto:D-STAR_23cm@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2015 2:42 PM
To: D-STAR_23cm@...
Subject: Re: [D-STAR_23cm] ID-1 to ID-1 and internet connection
?
?
The configuration I use allows only wanted traffic between two ID-1 radios:
You need a router with each ID-1 that can do NAT (network address translation) AND simple port forwarding (or a "DMZ computer" function).? I use an old Netgear WGT624v2 (which does both), and is spec'd to take 12vDC but runs just fine (as do my other Netgear
switches and routers) from a RigRunner supplying 14.2vDC.
Say computer #1 is on the 192.168.1.0/24 network with address 192.168.1.10:
I configure router #1 to have a LAN (local) address of? 192.168.1.11 (these are examples, pick your own IP addresses in the same network), and a WAN (remote) address of 10.0.0.21 (netmask 255.0.0.0).? The router then becomes a gateway to all 10.x.x.x addresses.
?I configure computer #1 to route only 10.x.x.x/8 traffic to 192.168.1.11 (the router's LAN address)? There are a couple ways to do this:
-
Use the ROUTE command at the Windows command line to add 192.168.1.11 as a gateway to the 10.x.x.x/8 network.? Type just "route" at the Windows command line to learn the settings (in Windows 7, this even displays an example).? I think the correct command in
this case is "ROUTE ADD 10.0.0.0 MASK 255.0.0.0 192.168.1.11"
-
Go into your Windows settings and accomplish the same thing (this varies by version of Windows).
Connect computer #1 to a LAN port of router #1, and connect ID-1 #1 to the WAN port of router #1.
Now do exactly the same thing with computer/router/ID-1 #2, EXCEPT give router #2 a WAN address of 10.0.0.22.
If you have computer/router/ID-1 #3, #4, etc on the RF network, configure them similarly, giving each router a unique WAN address on the 10.x.x.x network.
With the radios on and enabled for data transfer, from computer #1, try to ping 10.0.0.22 (or from computer #2, try to ping 10.0.0.21).? This needs to work before you go any further.? You may have to enable WAN pings on the routers.
If the above works, you now have the basics of your network functional, but you can't (yet) pass traffic between the two computers.? To do that, you have to use the router's port forwarding or "DMZ computer" capability.
Let's say that computer #2 has a web server (typically using port 80) that computer #1 needs to access.? You configure router #2 to "port-forward" all WAN requests for port 80, to the address of computer #2.? If your router has a "DMZ" function, it's even easier:?
you configure router #2 to set the "DMZ computer" to the address of computer #2.? Now computer #1 should be able to access the web server on computer #2, using IP address 10.0.0.22.
Using the "DMZ computer" function has both advantages as disadvantages:? It makes ALL of computer #2 TCP/IP ports visible on the radio network.? This helps if you want to do file sharing.
Note that all computers should address other computers on the RF network by the remote computer's
router address of 10.x.x.x.
Note also that this is not the only way to do this, but it works for me.? and it keeps the local network traffic at each site, off the air.
-- Dean
On 2015-01-20 10:25, 'Woodrick, Ed'
ewoodrick@... [D-STAR_23cm] wrote:
A switch can help out a little, but a router is suggested. But even with the router, you still have
the issues of other applications hogging the channel.
I've heard it suggested that simply hooking the ID-1 to a network switch helps prevent a lot of network traffic from hitting the airwaves. A hub that sends everything everywhere would be a bad idea.
Bill
?
|
Multiple PCs are definitely easy to setup this way, but you have to be careful about swamping the bandwidth of the ID-1s. Two PCs trying to receive 5Mb photos
is just going to be a miserable experience.
?
Kinda nice thing about the ID-1, you can easily watch the TX lights to see just how busy the link is.
?
Ed WA4YIH
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: D-STAR_23cm@... [mailto:D-STAR_23cm@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2015 4:57 PM
To: D-STAR_23cm@...
Subject: Re: [D-STAR_23cm] ID-1 to ID-1 and internet connection
?
?
Ed,
There are many low power routers around that can be pressed into service as you describe. I'm partial to the Alix and Soekris devices myself. A useful side effect of the router is that you can service a good many PC's from the LAN side
of it. This is ideal for somewhere like a Red Cross shelter or a race control tent as it doesn't require much in the way of special skills on the users part. Indeed, you could offer WiFi to the locals from it.
With careful selection of one's firewall software (I like pFsense and m0n0Wall) one can write rules for the LAN port such that the firewall will drop all traffic _not_ going to a particular destination. This means that all your local LAN
traffic remains on the LAN without added messing with PC's and never escapes to the ID-1 side. Features such as remote access can also be added so that your "network administrator" can connect to all of the routers in the field to make dynamic changes - a
PPTP session over the ID-1 network would work gangbusters.
?
On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 2:41 PM, Dean Gibson AE7Q
yahu.stuff@... [D-STAR_23cm] <D-STAR_23cm@...> wrote:
The configuration I use allows only wanted traffic between two ID-1 radios:
You need a router with each ID-1 that can do NAT (network address translation) AND simple port forwarding (or a "DMZ computer" function).? I use an old Netgear WGT624v2 (which does both), and is spec'd to take 12vDC but runs just fine (as do my other Netgear
switches and routers) from a RigRunner supplying 14.2vDC.
Say computer #1 is on the network with address
:
I configure router #1 to have a LAN (local) address of? 192.168.1.11 (these are examples, pick your own IP addresses in the same network), and a WAN (remote) address of 10.0.0.21 (netmask 255.0.0.0).? The router then becomes a gateway to all 10.x.x.x addresses.
?I configure computer #1 to route only 10.x.x.x/8 traffic to 192.168.1.11 (the router's LAN address)? There are a couple ways to do this:
-
Use the ROUTE command at the Windows command line to add 192.168.1.11 as a gateway to the 10.x.x.x/8 network.? Type just "route" at the Windows command line to learn the settings (in Windows 7, this even displays an example).? I think the correct command in
this case is "ROUTE ADD 10.0.0.0 MASK 255.0.0.0 192.168.1.11"
-
Go into your Windows settings and accomplish the same thing (this varies by version of Windows).
Connect computer #1 to a LAN port of router #1, and connect ID-1 #1 to the WAN port of router #1.
Now do exactly the same thing with computer/router/ID-1 #2, EXCEPT give router #2 a WAN address of 10.0.0.22.
If you have computer/router/ID-1 #3, #4, etc on the RF network, configure them similarly, giving each router a unique WAN address on the 10.x.x.x network.
With the radios on and enabled for data transfer, from computer #1, try to ping 10.0.0.22 (or from computer #2, try to ping 10.0.0.21).? This needs to work before you go any further.? You may have to enable WAN pings on the routers.
If the above works, you now have the basics of your network functional, but you can't (yet) pass traffic between the two computers.? To do that, you have to use the router's port forwarding or "DMZ computer" capability.
Let's say that computer #2 has a web server (typically using port 80) that computer #1 needs to access.? You configure router #2 to "port-forward" all WAN requests for port 80, to the address of computer #2.? If your router has a "DMZ" function, it's even easier:?
you configure router #2 to set the "DMZ computer" to the address of computer #2.? Now computer #1 should be able to access the web server on computer #2, using IP address 10.0.0.22.
Using the "DMZ computer" function has both advantages as disadvantages:? It makes ALL of computer #2 TCP/IP ports visible on the radio network.? This helps if you want to do file sharing.
Note that all computers should address other computers on the RF network by the remote computer's
router address of 10.x.x.x.
Note also that this is not the only way to do this, but it works for me.? and it keeps the local network traffic at each site, off the air.
-- Dean
On 2015-01-20 10:25, 'Woodrick, Ed'
ewoodrick@... [D-STAR_23cm] wrote:
A switch can help out a little, but a router is suggested. But even with the router, you still have
the issues of other applications hogging the channel.
I've heard it suggested that simply hooking the ID-1 to a network switch helps prevent a lot of network traffic from hitting the airwaves. A hub that sends everything everywhere would be a bad idea.
Bill
?
|
