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(W8SS) Best MOBILE ant for ID-1???

 

开云体育

What is the BEST mobile antenna for 1.2G that will go through a car wash?

What’s your opinion???

Thanks…Joe / W8SS / Mesh Engineering / Trustee & Sysop on D-Star for K8LCD
AKA: Dr. Joe Mesh, D.M.D., C.A.G.S. (Prosthodontics)
from beautiful downtown HELL, Michigan
Always available at:?? info@...
.......................................................................
See us on the web at:

W8SS, W8SSS & K8LCD all on QRZ.com and at drsmesh.com

?

?

?
D-Star <-> Analog... it's in the D-Star spec...

 

D-Star <-> Analog... it's in the D-Star spec...
? ? Posted by: "michaelcarey69" michaelcarey@... michaelcarey69
? ? Date: Fri Oct 15, 2010 12:56 am ((PDT))

Hi Everybody,

I'm not sure if this is common knowledge, I haven't seen it "out there" yet. Apologies if this is old news.

As we all know, the original D-Star specification is written in Japanese. There has been a partial translation to English with a document called shogen.pdf describing the main areas of the D-Star protocol.

I was looking around Satoshi Yasuda's web page last night. Satoshi was one of the people in the original JARL D-Star working group and is also the original developer of the DV Node Adapter that has become very popular worldwide in varying forms.

Anyway, Satoshi has translated some more of the D-Star specification, section 4.2.8 which describes analog to D-star gateway operation.

It's called shogen_4_2_8.pdf. (Attached)

Basically it describes the operation of an "adapter" which includes an AMBE2020 codec chip and I presume from reading the document, a MSK modem. I am also presuming that to use this function, you need a "special" radio that can encode and decode a D-Star like header containing callsign information that is basically the same as the normal D-Star header. This alternative header is transmitted at 1200bps MSK.

My understanding is that one of these radios (which don't exist of course) is a normal FM radio, but with the ability to send and receive the 1200 bps MSK header. When you key up your radio, the header containing URCall, MYCall, RPT1 and RPT2 is transmitted followed by conventional FM audio. The D-Star <-> analog adapter sees this header and then uses the onboard AMBE-2020 to encode the received FM audio and send it though the gateway system.

In reverse, an incoming gateway DV stream (from the internet) would have the AMBE DV audio decoded back to analog. The callsign info would be transmitted in the short MSK header at the start of the transmission, followed by the decoded audio in normal analog FM mode.? The users radio would then decode the MSK header and display callsign information. The advantage the those with "normal" FM radios listening to the repeater would be able to hear the decoded audio.

It would appear that none of the other slow data info would be transmitted, just the voice portion of the DV stream.

I've been thinking all day about this and how it could be implemented with the current D-Star gateway system.? Not having readily available user radios that support this part of the spec would be a stumbling block. The "adapter" part would also need to be developed.

I wonder how much else is hidden away in the D-Star spec that has yet to be discovered?

Interesting indeed!!

Michael.
VK5ZEA
Re: Kenwood Analog Repeater Interfaced to Icom D-STAR Controller

 

Hi,
Check out my videos showing the prototype ID-RP2C interface in operation. VK5REX C is now in full operation using the equipment you see in the videos.




There are a few requirements that need to be met for successful GMSK D-Star "compatible" operation on non-D-Star RF hardware.

The radios need be be pure FM, not PM (Phase Modulation). You need flat discriminator output audio and flat TX audio with no high/low pass filtering in place.
If you have a radio/repeater that is designed to work with data, you should be OK.
The other thing that is a requirement is a fast TX key up time. Although you are using a DV Node Adapter as the GMSK modem, the internal PIC chip isn't handling the TX/RX data. You are driving the GMSK chip directly from the ID-RP2C (via the interface) and as such you have no ability to add a transmit delay to the data. If the TX radio doesn't key up fast enough, the D-Star header might not be received properly by listening stations... and that's not good.

DV Node Adapters can be purchased from several different sources.

I'm seriously thinking about writing up a proper document that outlines how the ID-RP2C/DV Node Adapter interface operates and how you connect it to a DV Node Adapter... but for now I've been sending out info manually to those that are interested. The interface is fairly straightforward to implement but as you can imagine, there are many different variations of DV Node Adapters and RF hardware that can cause problems. For those wanting to copy what I (and now others) have done, I suggest getting the DV Node Adapter working with your RF hardware first. Use the DVAR Hot Spot software or the DV Node Adapter diagnostic software to sort out any bugs with audio levels first.

If you want more info, please don't hesitate to email me.

Michael.
VK5ZEA

--- In D-STAR_23cm@..., ernest bailey <ernest.bailey@...> wrote:



Intresting we the south yorkshire repeater group are also looking in to using kendecom MR4 t/ RX units any information on the interface would be of help Ernie G4LUE look at our web site www.southyorkshirerepeatergroup.co.uk






To: D-STAR_23cm@...; Repeater@...; Repeater-Builder@...; Repeaters@...
CC: d-star@...; IllinoisD-STAR@...; WisconsinD-STAR@...; kc9lkz@...
From: wb9qzb_groups@...
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2010 07:49:29 -0700
Subject: [D-STAR_23cm] Fwd: Kenwood Analog Repeater Interfaced to Icom D-STAR Controller








Interesting thread below about Interfacing Kenwood Analog Repeater to Icom D-STAR Controller for Use with D-STAR.

Great example of continued innovation of D-STAR technologies by incorporating non-Icom products into D-STAR environment.


----- Forwarded Message ----
From: "dstar_digital@..." <dstar_digital@...>
To: dstar_digital@...
Sent: Thu, October 7, 2010 8:46:14 AM
Subject: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Digest Number 1161

There are 3 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. K8BIG Port B Using Kenwood TKR-850 Interfaced to ID-RP2C
From: danielwoodie
1b. Re: K8BIG Port B Using Kenwood TKR-850 Interfaced to ID-RP2C
From: John D. Hays
1c. Re: K8BIG Port B Using Kenwood TKR-850 Interfaced to ID-RP2C
From: michaelcarey69


Messages
________________________________________________________________________
1a. K8BIG Port B Using Kenwood TKR-850 Interfaced to ID-RP2C
Posted by: "danielwoodie" kc8zum@... danielwoodie
Date: Wed Oct 6, 2010 10:32 pm ((PDT))

The K8BIG Port B D-Star Repeater in Cincinnati, Ohio is successfully running using a Kenwood TKR-850 Interfaced to the Icom ID-RP2C in place of the Icom Band module (ID-RP4000V). The usable range of the repeater has been effectively doubled from around 25 miles radius to 50-55 Miles radius.

The K8BIG system is on the WCPO-TV Tower overlooking downtown Cincinnati, OH with the antenna at 700' AGL. There are 3 50,000 Watt FM Radio transmitters, 1 250,000 Watt VHF DTV Transmitter, and 2 3,000 Watt LPTV stations on the same tower along with various commercial VHF/UHF/220 transmitters so the RF environment is pretty harsh - add in the neighboring (2 Blocks) tower with a similar complement of transmitters and it is downright brutal for any radio equipment.

The Icom band module was being swamped by the high RF levels at and surrounding the site, causing very poor effective receive sensitivity even after the TX-RX BpBr Cans and an additional band-pass cavity. I had partially remedied this with one side of a reject-only mobile duplexer, but that introduced around 6 dB of insertion loss. Even with the 6 dB insertion loss the effective sensitivity was improved. The Kenwood repeater has a much tighter front end and much better selectivity with adjustable front-end helicals so the additional receive filter is not necessary and the 6 dB insertion loss was removed.

After the interface was built we were able to plug and play into the Icom ID-RP2C controller and gateway. With the exception of the increased range there is no operational difference in the repeater - everything works identically to the Icom band module. Commands work, data works, D-Rats works, etc.

I will be building more of the interfaces shortly which can be used to interface any 9600 baud-capable analog repeater directly to the ID-RP2C. Anyone interested please let me know.

Thanks.

Dan Woodie
KC8ZUM







Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
1b. Re: K8BIG Port B Using Kenwood TKR-850 Interfaced to ID-RP2C
Posted by: "John D. Hays" john@... k7ve
Date: Wed Oct 6, 2010 11:19 pm ((PDT))

Great to hear Dan -- I run the desktop version TKR-820 for NW7DR B
but using a node adapter and NI-STAR by G4ULF. Its also a great little
repeater. You can read about it on my blog at

On 10/6/2010 10:32 PM, danielwoodie wrote:

The K8BIG Port B D-Star Repeater in Cincinnati, Ohio is successfully
running using a Kenwood TKR-850 Interfaced to the Icom ID-RP2C in
place of the Icom Band module (ID-RP4000V). The usable range of the
repeater has been effectively doubled from around 25 miles radius to
50-55 Miles radius.
...
After the interface was built we were able to plug and play into the
Icom ID-RP2C controller and gateway. With the exception of the
increased range there is no operational difference in the repeater -
everything works identically to the Icom band module. Commands work,
data works, D-Rats works, etc.

I will be building more of the interfaces shortly which can be used to
interface any 9600 baud-capable analog repeater directly to the
ID-RP2C. Anyone interested please let me know.

Thanks.

Dan Woodie
KC8ZUM
--
John D. Hays
Amateur Radio Station K7VE <>
PO Box 1223
Edmonds, WA 98020-1223
VOIP/SIP: john@... <sip:john@...>

<mailto:john@...>




Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
1c. Re: K8BIG Port B Using Kenwood TKR-850 Interfaced to ID-RP2C
Posted by: "michaelcarey69" michaelcarey@... michaelcarey69
Date: Thu Oct 7, 2010 3:31 am ((PDT))

Excellent news Dan,
I received your email... just typing a reply up for you.

The ID-RP2C/GMSK interface circuit is perfect for repeater installations just like yours. If the Icom repeater hardware is having a rough time with a nasty RF environment... you can make your own repeater that can handle the RF soup a whole lot better without having to junk the rest of your gear.

It's just what you need to make add 6m or 10m D-Star repeater to an existing ID-RP2C system, ready for the imminent release of the IC-9100!

Michael.
VK5ZEA

--- In dstar_digital@..., "danielwoodie" <kc8zum@> wrote:

The K8BIG Port B D-Star Repeater in Cincinnati, Ohio is successfully running using a Kenwood TKR-850 Interfaced to the Icom ID-RP2C in place of the Icom Band module (ID-RP4000V). The usable range of the repeater has been effectively doubled from around 25 miles radius to 50-55 Miles radius.

The K8BIG system is on the WCPO-TV Tower overlooking downtown Cincinnati, OH with the antenna at 700' AGL. There are 3 50,000 Watt FM Radio transmitters, 1 250,000 Watt VHF DTV Transmitter, and 2 3,000 Watt LPTV stations on the same tower along with various commercial VHF/UHF/220 transmitters so the RF environment is pretty harsh - add in the neighboring (2 Blocks) tower with a similar complement of transmitters and it is downright brutal for any radio equipment.

The Icom band module was being swamped by the high RF levels at and surrounding the site, causing very poor effective receive sensitivity even after the TX-RX BpBr Cans and an additional band-pass cavity. I had partially remedied this with one side of a reject-only mobile duplexer, but that introduced around 6 dB of insertion loss. Even with the 6 dB insertion loss the effective sensitivity was improved. The Kenwood repeater has a much tighter front end and much better selectivity with adjustable front-end helicals so the additional receive filter is not necessary and the 6 dB insertion loss was removed.

After the interface was built we were able to plug and play into the Icom ID-RP2C controller and gateway. With the exception of the increased range there is no operational difference in the repeater - everything works identically to the Icom band module. Commands work, data works, D-Rats works, etc.

I will be building more of the interfaces shortly which can be used to interface any 9600 baud-capable analog repeater directly to the ID-RP2C. Anyone interested please let me know.

Thanks.

Dan Woodie
KC8ZUM
Re: Kenwood Analog Repeater Interfaced to Icom D-STAR Controller

ernest bailey
 

开云体育


?Intresting we the south yorkshire repeater group are also looking in to using kendecom MR4 t/ RX units?? any information on the interface would be of help? Ernie G4LUE look at our web site
?
?
To: D-STAR_23cm@...; Repeater@...; Repeater-Builder@...; Repeaters@...
CC: d-star@...; IllinoisD-STAR@...; WisconsinD-STAR@...; kc9lkz@...
From: wb9qzb_groups@...
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2010 07:49:29 -0700
Subject: [D-STAR_23cm] Fwd: Kenwood Analog Repeater Interfaced to Icom D-STAR Controller

?
Interesting thread below about Interfacing Kenwood Analog Repeater to Icom D-STAR Controller for Use with D-STAR.

Great example of continued innovation of D-STAR technologies by incorporating non-Icom products into D-STAR environment.

----- Forwarded Message ----

From: "dstar_digital@..."
To: dstar_digital@...
Sent: Thu, October 7, 2010 8:46:14 AM
Subject: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Digest Number 1161

There are 3 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. K8BIG Port B Using Kenwood TKR-850 Interfaced to ID-RP2C? ?
? ? From: danielwoodie
1b. Re: K8BIG Port B Using Kenwood TKR-850 Interfaced to ID-RP2C? ?
? ? From: John D. Hays
1c. Re: K8BIG Port B Using Kenwood TKR-850 Interfaced to ID-RP2C? ?
? ? From: michaelcarey69


Messages
________________________________________________________________________
1a. K8BIG Port B Using Kenwood TKR-850 Interfaced to ID-RP2C
? ? Posted by: "danielwoodie" kc8zum@... danielwoodie
? ? Date: Wed Oct 6, 2010 10:32 pm ((PDT))

The K8BIG Port B D-Star Repeater in Cincinnati, Ohio is successfully running using a Kenwood TKR-850 Interfaced to the Icom ID-RP2C in place of the Icom Band module (ID-RP4000V).? The usable range of the repeater has been effectively doubled from around 25 miles radius to 50-55 Miles radius.?

The K8BIG system is on the WCPO-TV Tower overlooking downtown Cincinnati, OH with the antenna at 700' AGL.? There are 3 50,000 Watt FM Radio transmitters, 1 250,000 Watt VHF DTV Transmitter, and 2 3,000 Watt LPTV stations on the same tower along with various commercial VHF/UHF/220 transmitters so the RF environment is pretty harsh - add in the neighboring (2 Blocks) tower with a similar complement of transmitters and it is downright brutal for any radio equipment.

The Icom band module was being swamped by the high RF levels at and surrounding the site, causing very poor effective receive sensitivity even after the TX-RX BpBr Cans and an additional band-pass cavity.? I had partially remedied this with one side of a reject-only mobile duplexer, but that introduced around 6 dB of insertion loss.? Even with the 6 dB insertion loss the effective sensitivity was improved.? The Kenwood repeater has a much tighter front end and much better selectivity with adjustable front-end helicals so the additional receive filter is not necessary and the 6 dB insertion loss was removed.

After the interface was built we were able to plug and play into the Icom ID-RP2C controller and gateway.? With the exception of the increased range there is no operational difference in the repeater - everything works identically to the Icom band module.? Commands work, data works, D-Rats works, etc.

I will be building more of the interfaces shortly which can be used to interface any 9600 baud-capable analog repeater directly to the ID-RP2C.? Anyone interested please let me know.

Thanks.

Dan Woodie
KC8ZUM







Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
1b. Re: K8BIG Port B Using Kenwood TKR-850 Interfaced to ID-RP2C
? ? Posted by: "John D. Hays" john@... k7ve
? ? Date: Wed Oct 6, 2010 11:19 pm ((PDT))

? Great to hear Dan -- I run the desktop version TKR-820 for NW7DR? B
but using a node adapter and NI-STAR by G4ULF.? Its also a great little
repeater. You can read about it on my blog at

On 10/6/2010 10:32 PM, danielwoodie wrote:
>
> The K8BIG Port B D-Star Repeater in Cincinnati, Ohio is successfully
> running using a Kenwood TKR-850 Interfaced to the Icom ID-RP2C in
> place of the Icom Band module (ID-RP4000V). The usable range of the
> repeater has been effectively doubled from around 25 miles radius to
> 50-55 Miles radius.
> ...
> After the interface was built we were able to plug and play into the
> Icom ID-RP2C controller and gateway. With the exception of the
> increased range there is no operational difference in the repeater -
> everything works identically to the Icom band module. Commands work,
> data works, D-Rats works, etc.
>
> I will be building more of the interfaces shortly which can be used to
> interface any 9600 baud-capable analog repeater directly to the
> ID-RP2C. Anyone interested please let me know.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Dan Woodie
> KC8ZUM
>

--
John D. Hays
Amateur Radio Station K7VE <>
PO Box 1223
Edmonds, WA 98020-1223
VOIP/SIP: john@... john@...>

john@...>




Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
1c. Re: K8BIG Port B Using Kenwood TKR-850 Interfaced to ID-RP2C
? ? Posted by: "michaelcarey69" michaelcarey@... michaelcarey69
? ? Date: Thu Oct 7, 2010 3:31 am ((PDT))

Excellent news Dan,
I received your email... just typing a reply up for you.

The ID-RP2C/GMSK interface circuit is perfect for repeater installations just like yours. If the Icom repeater hardware is having a rough time with a nasty RF environment... you can make your own repeater that can handle the RF soup a whole lot better without having to junk the rest of your gear.

It's just what you need to make add 6m or 10m D-Star repeater to an existing ID-RP2C system, ready for the imminent release of the IC-9100!?

Michael.
VK5ZEA

--- In dstar_digital@..., "danielwoodie" wrote:
>
> The K8BIG Port B D-Star Repeater in Cincinnati, Ohio is successfully running using a Kenwood TKR-850 Interfaced to the Icom ID-RP2C in place of the Icom Band module (ID-RP4000V).? The usable range of the repeater has been effectively doubled from around 25 miles radius to 50-55 Miles radius.?
>
> The K8BIG system is on the WCPO-TV Tower overlooking downtown Cincinnati, OH with the antenna at 700' AGL.? There are 3 50,000 Watt FM Radio transmitters, 1 250,000 Watt VHF DTV Transmitter, and 2 3,000 Watt LPTV stations on the same tower along with various commercial VHF/UHF/220 transmitters so the RF environment is pretty harsh - add in the neighboring (2 Blocks) tower with a similar complement of transmitters and it is downright brutal for any radio equipment.
>
> The Icom band module was being swamped by the high RF levels at and surrounding the site, causing very poor effective receive sensitivity even after the TX-RX BpBr Cans and an additional band-pass cavity.? I had partially remedied this with one side of a reject-only mobile duplexer, but that introduced around 6 dB of insertion loss.? Even with the 6 dB insertion loss the effective sensitivity was improved.? The Kenwood repeater has a much tighter front end and much better selectivity with adjustable front-end helicals so the additional receive filter is not necessary and the 6 dB insertion loss was removed.
>
> After the interface was built we were able to plug and play into the Icom ID-RP2C controller and gateway.? With the exception of the increased range there is no operational difference in the repeater - everything works identically to the Icom band module.? Commands work, data works, D-Rats works, etc.
>
> I will be building more of the interfaces shortly which can be used to interface any 9600 baud-capable analog repeater directly to the ID-RP2C.? Anyone interested please let me know.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Dan Woodie
> KC8ZUM
>
Kenwood Analog Repeater Interfaced to Icom D-STAR Controller

 

Interesting thread below about Interfacing Kenwood Analog Repeater to Icom D-STAR Controller for Use with D-STAR.

Great example of continued innovation of D-STAR technologies by incorporating non-Icom products into D-STAR environment.

----- Forwarded Message ----
From: "dstar_digital@..."
To: dstar_digital@...
Sent: Thu, October 7, 2010 8:46:14 AM
Subject: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Digest Number 1161

There are 3 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. K8BIG Port B Using Kenwood TKR-850 Interfaced to ID-RP2C? ?
? ? From: danielwoodie
1b. Re: K8BIG Port B Using Kenwood TKR-850 Interfaced to ID-RP2C? ?
? ? From: John D. Hays
1c. Re: K8BIG Port B Using Kenwood TKR-850 Interfaced to ID-RP2C? ?
? ? From: michaelcarey69


Messages
________________________________________________________________________
1a. K8BIG Port B Using Kenwood TKR-850 Interfaced to ID-RP2C
? ? Posted by: "danielwoodie" kc8zum@... danielwoodie
? ? Date: Wed Oct 6, 2010 10:32 pm ((PDT))

The K8BIG Port B D-Star Repeater in Cincinnati, Ohio is successfully running using a Kenwood TKR-850 Interfaced to the Icom ID-RP2C in place of the Icom Band module (ID-RP4000V).? The usable range of the repeater has been effectively doubled from around 25 miles radius to 50-55 Miles radius.?

The K8BIG system is on the WCPO-TV Tower overlooking downtown Cincinnati, OH with the antenna at 700' AGL.? There are 3 50,000 Watt FM Radio transmitters, 1 250,000 Watt VHF DTV Transmitter, and 2 3,000 Watt LPTV stations on the same tower along with various commercial VHF/UHF/220 transmitters so the RF environment is pretty harsh - add in the neighboring (2 Blocks) tower with a similar complement of transmitters and it is downright brutal for any radio equipment.

The Icom band module was being swamped by the high RF levels at and surrounding the site, causing very poor effective receive sensitivity even after the TX-RX BpBr Cans and an additional band-pass cavity.? I had partially remedied this with one side of a reject-only mobile duplexer, but that introduced around 6 dB of insertion loss.? Even with the 6 dB insertion loss the effective sensitivity was improved.? The Kenwood repeater has a much tighter front end and much better selectivity with adjustable front-end helicals so the additional receive filter is not necessary and the 6 dB insertion loss was removed.

After the interface was built we were able to plug and play into the Icom ID-RP2C controller and gateway.? With the exception of the increased range there is no operational difference in the repeater - everything works identically to the Icom band module.? Commands work, data works, D-Rats works, etc.

I will be building more of the interfaces shortly which can be used to interface any 9600 baud-capable analog repeater directly to the ID-RP2C.? Anyone interested please let me know.

Thanks.

Dan Woodie
KC8ZUM







Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
1b. Re: K8BIG Port B Using Kenwood TKR-850 Interfaced to ID-RP2C
? ? Posted by: "John D. Hays" john@... k7ve
? ? Date: Wed Oct 6, 2010 11:19 pm ((PDT))

? Great to hear Dan -- I run the desktop version TKR-820 for NW7DR? B
but using a node adapter and NI-STAR by G4ULF.? Its also a great little
repeater. You can read about it on my blog at


On 10/6/2010 10:32 PM, danielwoodie wrote:
>
> The K8BIG Port B D-Star Repeater in Cincinnati, Ohio is successfully
> running using a Kenwood TKR-850 Interfaced to the Icom ID-RP2C in
> place of the Icom Band module (ID-RP4000V). The usable range of the
> repeater has been effectively doubled from around 25 miles radius to
> 50-55 Miles radius.
> ...
> After the interface was built we were able to plug and play into the
> Icom ID-RP2C controller and gateway. With the exception of the
> increased range there is no operational difference in the repeater -
> everything works identically to the Icom band module. Commands work,
> data works, D-Rats works, etc.
>
> I will be building more of the interfaces shortly which can be used to
> interface any 9600 baud-capable analog repeater directly to the
> ID-RP2C. Anyone interested please let me know.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Dan Woodie
> KC8ZUM
>

--
John D. Hays
Amateur Radio Station K7VE <>
PO Box 1223
Edmonds, WA 98020-1223
VOIP/SIP: john@... john@...>

john@...>




Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
1c. Re: K8BIG Port B Using Kenwood TKR-850 Interfaced to ID-RP2C
? ? Posted by: "michaelcarey69" michaelcarey@... michaelcarey69
? ? Date: Thu Oct 7, 2010 3:31 am ((PDT))

Excellent news Dan,
I received your email... just typing a reply up for you.

The ID-RP2C/GMSK interface circuit is perfect for repeater installations just like yours. If the Icom repeater hardware is having a rough time with a nasty RF environment... you can make your own repeater that can handle the RF soup a whole lot better without having to junk the rest of your gear.

It's just what you need to make add 6m or 10m D-Star repeater to an existing ID-RP2C system, ready for the imminent release of the IC-9100!?

Michael.
VK5ZEA

--- In dstar_digital@..., "danielwoodie" wrote:
>
> The K8BIG Port B D-Star Repeater in Cincinnati, Ohio is successfully running using a Kenwood TKR-850 Interfaced to the Icom ID-RP2C in place of the Icom Band module (ID-RP4000V).? The usable range of the repeater has been effectively doubled from around 25 miles radius to 50-55 Miles radius.?
>
> The K8BIG system is on the WCPO-TV Tower overlooking downtown Cincinnati, OH with the antenna at 700' AGL.? There are 3 50,000 Watt FM Radio transmitters, 1 250,000 Watt VHF DTV Transmitter, and 2 3,000 Watt LPTV stations on the same tower along with various commercial VHF/UHF/220 transmitters so the RF environment is pretty harsh - add in the neighboring (2 Blocks) tower with a similar complement of transmitters and it is downright brutal for any radio equipment.
>
> The Icom band module was being swamped by the high RF levels at and surrounding the site, causing very poor effective receive sensitivity even after the TX-RX BpBr Cans and an additional band-pass cavity.? I had partially remedied this with one side of a reject-only mobile duplexer, but that introduced around 6 dB of insertion loss.? Even with the 6 dB insertion loss the effective sensitivity was improved.? The Kenwood repeater has a much tighter front end and much better selectivity with adjustable front-end helicals so the additional receive filter is not necessary and the 6 dB insertion loss was removed.
>
> After the interface was built we were able to plug and play into the Icom ID-RP2C controller and gateway.? With the exception of the increased range there is no operational difference in the repeater - everything works identically to the Icom band module.? Commands work, data works, D-Rats works, etc.
>
> I will be building more of the interfaces shortly which can be used to interface any 9600 baud-capable analog repeater directly to the ID-RP2C.? Anyone interested please let me know.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Dan Woodie
> KC8ZUM
>
Re: Converting Kenwood Analog FM Repeater for Use with D-STAR

[email protected]
 

This was a great article!

I would like to do the same with a Micor.

73,
Nick

?

?

?


----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Thompson" To: "D-STAR 23cm"
Cc: IllinoisD-STAR@..., WisconsinD-STAR@..., kc9lkz@..., "ga dstar" , al-dstar@..., d-star@...
Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2010 1:05:26 AM
Subject: [D-STAR_23cm] Converting Kenwood Analog FM Repeater for Use with D-STAR



Converting Kenwood TKR-820 Analog FM Repeater for Use with D-STAR
New file uploaded to D-STAR_23cm

[email protected]
 

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the D-STAR_23cm
group.

File : /D-STAR Programming/dplus and How to Use It.pdf
Uploaded by : wb9qzb_groups <wb9qzb_groups@...>
Description : dplus & How to Use It by National Capital Region D-Star Association

You can access this file at the URL:


To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:


Regards,

wb9qzb_groups <wb9qzb_groups@...>
New file uploaded to D-STAR_23cm

[email protected]
 

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SDR Dominates the 2010 ARRL/TAPR Digital Communications Conference

 


SDR Dominates the 2010 ARRL/TAPR Digital Communications Conference

09/27/2010

By Ward Silver, N0AX



The turnout was excellent for the ARRL/TAPR Digital Communications Conference September 23-26 at the in Vancouver, Washington.


The three day conference included technical presentations on both Friday and Saturday, and an optional tutorial seminar on Sunday morning. Both Yaesu and ICOM attended as commercial vendors. Although not present at the conference, Kenwood contributed door prizes.


Software Defined Radio (SDR) was the dominant technical theme of the conference.?Along with independent SDR developers, the Open SDR group gave a status update, George Heron, N2APB, introduced the www.sdr-cube.com/ project and the conference even featured an “introduction to SDR” forum. Another discussion that attracted a great deal of attention was a project to adapt analog radios to SDR at the IF.


Other conference highlights included a presentation by Rick Muething, KN6KB, on the status of , the sound-card-based HF digital protocol recently incorporated into Winlink’s RMS Express software package. WINMOR promises performance that rivals PACTOR III at a tiny fraction of the cost. Rick also discussed development of this new V4 protocol for keyboard-to-keyboard communication and was at the podium again Sunday morning with his DSP tutorial.


One of the most anticipated talks was given by Bruce Perens, K6BP, on the new Codec2 digital voice codec. This is an open source project that makes significant advances beyond the vocoder family without any of the licensing and patent issues that have hindered development of Amateur Radio digital voice systems. Bruce stated that by this time next year, the codec should be ready for late-beta deployment on the HF bands.


The complete list of presenters and topics is available at the ?

  • Rick Muething, KN...
  • Mel Whitten, K0PF...
  • N2ADR’s “All Di

All photos by N0AX
Re: Basic question

Tom Azlin N4ZPT
 

If you are in range of that RP-2C/D then when you put your ID-1 in DD RPS, have the call signs right, put in fixed ip/mask/default gateway addresses in you laptop, and plug the ID-1 into the local laptop you should see the radio and the access point talking. If not in range your ID-1/laptop will be trying to connect but you will see nothing coming back.

On range: We see that even when we have 3 bars in the DV mode we sometimes get nothing in the DD mode on the co-located site using same antenna and a triplexer. (no FEC and a 128/4.8 worse path I suppose).

We have put a small laptop behind the RP2C running the network we wanted (ignoring the normal ip address of the 2C) and we then can ping the laptop "server" and access files on that server. That is why I think of it as a bridge but I am not a networking expert. Just manage a complete D-STAR Stack where we are playing with the 23cm DD every once in a while.

Also understand on just a single ID-1 so hard to do testing. We had a gang buy them so started setting up LAN parties to try every thing.

We stashed the docs we had here



73, tom n4zpt

On 9/30/2010 7:54 PM, Dean Gibson AE7Q wrote:
On 2010-09-30 15:30, Tom Azlin N4ZPT wrote:
No and No ["... can two ID-1 sites communicate w/ each other via a local RP-2D site?]
Setting up routes the way Steve Stroh mentioned (each ID-1 has a unique
3rd octet) is simple and easy to do, but (of course) it's a
bastardization of how networking is generally done. With the right
router that supports classless addressing, it should not be necessary to
chew up a whole class C subnet for each ID-1.

I'm in the unfortunate position of having an ID-1 and no one to talk to
in DD mode (or in DV mode, but that may change soon). A friend (Scott
Honaker / N7SS) has an RP-4000V, RP-2D,& RP-2C on a tower nearby, but
w/o an Internet connection. Since (I think) I'm the only one that could
hit it on 23cm, I can't really tell if I am hitting it (I can hit the
70cm unit w/ ease @ 5W).

Hence, I can't experiment, as the RP-2D gives NO on-air indication that
it even exists (let alone powered on, receiving, etc). I think there is
a way to set up IP routing that would work in a more conventional
manner, but I can't test my idea(s).

I can hit the 2m& 70cm modules of the K7LWH system (about 25 miles
away), but not the 23cm DV or DD modules.

My guess is that a few of you are in the same boat as well ...



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: Basic question

Tom Azlin N4ZPT
 

Oh, I was saying no to it being a repeater or digipeater.

And no to the two ID-1 communicating via an RP-2C/D with no special routes or servers behind the RP-2C/D. Certainly two ID-1 can make a bridge.

Agreed with all you were saying Peter. It matches our experience these past years. 73, tom n4zpt

On 9/30/2010 7:42 PM, Peter Corbett wrote:
On 2010-Sep-30 13:08 , dean_ae7q wrote:


I have seen conflicting statements about communication between two ID-1
sites that are served by the same RP-2D "repeater" + RP-2C controller.
QuestionS:

When an RP-2D receives an Ethernet DD packet via DD, does it "repeat"
(actually, store and forward) the packet to the same frequency?

Or, if the RP-2D doesn't do that, does the RP-2C?

In other words, can two ID-1 sites communicate w/ each other via a local
RP-2D site?
Yes and no. The RP-2D/RP-2C combo isn't an Ethernet bridge, and doesn't
seem to maintain an ARP table or TCAM or anything like that, at least
not by MAC address. (I suppose it might be doing so based on MY/YOUR calls.)

If you have 2 ID-1s on the same frequency and set to DD RPS, with
cross-matching MY/YOUR calls and sharing the same RPT1 call, then yes,
they form (basically) a point-to-point bridging tunnel between the
ID-1s. Multiple such tunnels should be able to run concurrently, limited
only by available channel time/transmitter duty cycle, etc.

However, a lone 3rd ID-1 can't talk to anyone. For multipoint (ie,
long-distance wireless LAN), you need an IP router hooked into the RP-2C
box. There are a few ways you can set it up (some of which probably
aren't compatible with using the G2 gateway software on the same stack),
but the key part is for each machine to not try talking directly to the
others, but instead to send via the IP gateway. Using a router with a
number of secondary IPs sliced up into /30-sized networks should work,
or you could use PPPoE, or you can play tricks with destination NAT (but
that requires extra special setup for the reverse routing.) As long as
the packets flow from machine A into the controller via the RF port, to
the router, and back to the controller and out via RF again, it should
be fine. Just setting up machines in the same subnet doesn't work,
because the repeater doesn't actually repeat or digipeat; the client
machines will never hear each other's ARP requests.
Re: Basic question

 

On 2010-Sep-30 19:58 , Dean Gibson AE7Q wrote:
On 2010-09-30 16:42, Peter Corbett wrote:
...
can two ID-1 sites communicate w/ each other via a local RP-2D
site?
Yes and no. The RP-2D/RP-2C combo isn't an Ethernet bridge, and
doesn't seem to maintain an ARP table or TCAM or anything like
that, at least not by MAC address. (I suppose it might be doing so
based on MY/YOUR calls.)
I didn't expect the RP-2D/2C combo to maintain an ARP table, but I
was hoping that one of the two would just digipeat DD packets.
If you have 2 ID-1s on the same frequency and set to DD RPS, with
cross-matching MY/YOUR calls and sharing the same RPT1 call /[and I
assume RPT2 is programmed w/ the gateway to accomplish this]/, then
yes, they form (basically) a point-to-point bridging tunnel between
the ID-1s.
Hmm, that works? And why is it a tunnel (in the sense that no one
on the local frequency couldn't hear it)?
Hear, but choose to ignore.
More tunnel, in the sense of 'ethernet in here, magic happens, ethernet
out there'.

RPT2 is only used with the Icom gateway and friends; if you're staying
local to the RP-2C, it stays blank, IIRC.

However, a lone 3rd ID-1 can't talk to anyone. ... Just setting up
machines in the same subnet doesn't work, because the repeater
doesn't actually repeat or digipeat; the client machines will never
hear each other's ARP requests.
Hmm, if it works for two ID-1 radios on the same DD module, let's
say that we have several ID-1 radios (say, AAA, BBB, CCC, DDD, etc)
on the same DD module (say, ZZZ), each programmed w/ "ZZZ A" for
Rpt1 and "ZZZ G" for Rpt2, and as follows for UrCall:

AAA: BBB BBB: AAA CCC: AAA DDD: AAA etc: AAA


Now you say that AAA and BBB can communicate (assuming their backing
computers/routers are configured w/ appropriate IP and a common
subnet mask). When BBB ARPs for AAA, that packet goes back out on
the ZZZ output, and surely AAA, CCC, & DDD receive it. Are you
saying that CCC (& DDD, etc) would discard the packet and not send it
through to the RJ-45, because the UrCall doesn't match?
OK, now say that BBB ARPs for CCC. I would think that since BBB is
still programmed with a UrCall of AAA, that ZZZ would send it back
out over the air (intended for AAA), and CCC (& DDD, etc) would see
it just fine (again ignoring the UrCall field), and the backing
computer/router would respond.
Yes, the incoming packet's UrCall doesn't match the local MyCall, so (as
far as I can tell) CCC and DDD would ignore the packet.

I haven't tried having 2 ID-1's who both think they are BBB (but with
different IPs on the machines behind them), but it should work as long
as both BBBs never want to talk to each other.

Similarly, I'm not really sure what the behavior of using UrCall=CQCQCQ
is on DD. I want to say we've tried that, and it isn't as magic a
solution as ought to be.

After all, this is exactly how I understand DV works, with many users
on two different modules: So long as each DV user programs the
UrCall with ANY user's callsign on the *_OTHER_* (remote) module (and
of course sets up Rpt1/2 correctly), all of the users can hear all of
the others. Isn't that correct? And isn't your "cross-matching
MY/YOUR calls" just a technique to fool the gateway into rerouting
the packets back to the originating DD module?
I'll admit that I haven't operated DV at all, but I'd been under the
impression that the convention was to leave the UrCall as CQCQCQ to get
the traditional everyone-hears-everyone behavior, and only to change the
programing of UrCall when you wanted a one-on-one conversation?


Has anyone tried this?

Now if the ID-1 is applying DSQL-type filtering in DD mode, that
would of course stop this in its tracks, but otherwise, it should
work, I'd think (and for more than three ID-1 radios).

Note that in both the DD and DV examples above, AAA doesn't even have
to be on the air for BBB, CCC, DDD, etc to talk to each other. The
only requirement would be that the gateway software would have to
THINK that AAA was on the ZZZ DD module.
...when the gateway software is in use, perhaps. The 'repeater' stacks
I've played with here don't run it at all; they only run an IP router
behind the RP-[12]D.

--
Peter Corbett :: KD8GBL
peter@...
Re: Basic question

Dean Gibson AE7Q
 

开云体育

On 2010-09-30 16:42, Peter Corbett wrote:
... 
 can two ID-1 sites communicate w/ each other via a local RP-2D site?
    
Yes and no. The RP-2D/RP-2C combo isn't an Ethernet bridge, and doesn't seem to maintain an ARP table or TCAM or anything like that, at least not by MAC address. (I suppose it might be doing so based on MY/YOUR calls.)

I didn't expect the RP-2D/2C combo to maintain an ARP table, but I was hoping that one of the two would just digipeat DD packets.

If you have 2 ID-1s on the same frequency and set to DD RPS, with cross-matching MY/YOUR calls and sharing the same RPT1 call [and I assume RPT2 is programmed w/ the gateway to accomplish this], then yes, they form (basically) a point-to-point bridging tunnel between the ID-1s.

Hmm, that works?? And why is it a tunnel (in the sense that no one on the local frequency couldn't hear it)?


However, a lone 3rd ID-1 can't talk to anyone. ... Just setting up machines in the same subnet doesn't work, because the repeater doesn't actually repeat or digipeat; the client machines will never hear each other's ARP requests.

Hmm, if it works for two ID-1 radios on the same DD module, let's say that we have several ID-1 radios (say, AAA, BBB, CCC, DDD, etc) on the same DD module (say, ZZZ), each programmed w/? "ZZZ A" for Rpt1 and "ZZZ G" for Rpt2, and as follows for UrCall:

AAA:? BBB
BBB:? AAA
CCC:? AAA
DDD:? AAA
etc:? AAA


Now you say that AAA and BBB can communicate (assuming their backing computers/routers are configured w/ appropriate IP and a common subnet mask).? When BBB ARPs for AAA, that packet goes back out on the ZZZ output, and surely AAA, CCC, & DDD receive it.? Are you saying that CCC (& DDD, etc) would discard the packet and not send it through to the RJ-45, because the UrCall doesn't match?

OK, now say that BBB ARPs for CCC.? I would think that since BBB is still programmed with a UrCall of AAA, that ZZZ would send it back out over the air (intended for AAA), and CCC (& DDD, etc) would see it just fine (again ignoring the UrCall field), and the backing computer/router would respond.

A similar argument goes for CCC (& DDD, etc) communicating back to AAA or BBB.? Again, unless the ID-1 filters packets based on UrCall, I would think this would work.

After all, this is exactly how I understand DV works, with many users on two different modules:? So long as each DV user programs the UrCall with ANY user's callsign on the _OTHER_ (remote) module (and of course sets up Rpt1/2 correctly), all of the users can hear all of the others.? Isn't that correct?? And isn't your "cross-matching MY/YOUR calls"? just a technique to fool the gateway into rerouting the packets back to the originating DD module?

Has anyone tried this?

Now if the ID-1 is applying DSQL-type filtering in DD mode, that would of course stop this in its tracks, but otherwise, it should work, I'd think (and for more than three ID-1 radios).

Note that in both the DD and DV examples above, AAA doesn't even have to be on the air for BBB, CCC, DDD, etc to talk to each other.? The only requirement would be that the gateway software would have to THINK that AAA was on the ZZZ DD module.

-- Dean 425-338-4276 (Seattle area) if you want to talk in detail, or even on WC7SO/C (usually listening).

ps: Four years ago, someone warned me about asking D-Star questions that might make me look stupid.? I don't mind looking stupid if I gain understanding in the process.? Besides ...
Re: Basic question

Dean Gibson AE7Q
 

On 2010-09-30 15:30, Tom Azlin N4ZPT wrote:
No and No ["... can two ID-1 sites communicate w/ each other via a local RP-2D site?]
Setting up routes the way Steve Stroh mentioned (each ID-1 has a unique 3rd octet) is simple and easy to do, but (of course) it's a bastardization of how networking is generally done. With the right router that supports classless addressing, it should not be necessary to chew up a whole class C subnet for each ID-1.

I'm in the unfortunate position of having an ID-1 and no one to talk to in DD mode (or in DV mode, but that may change soon). A friend (Scott Honaker / N7SS) has an RP-4000V, RP-2D, & RP-2C on a tower nearby, but w/o an Internet connection. Since (I think) I'm the only one that could hit it on 23cm, I can't really tell if I am hitting it (I can hit the 70cm unit w/ ease @ 5W).

Hence, I can't experiment, as the RP-2D gives NO on-air indication that it even exists (let alone powered on, receiving, etc). I think there is a way to set up IP routing that would work in a more conventional manner, but I can't test my idea(s).

I can hit the 2m & 70cm modules of the K7LWH system (about 25 miles away), but not the 23cm DV or DD modules.

My guess is that a few of you are in the same boat as well ...
Re: Basic question

 

On 2010-Sep-30 13:08 , dean_ae7q wrote:


I have seen conflicting statements about communication between two ID-1
sites that are served by the same RP-2D "repeater" + RP-2C controller.
QuestionS:

When an RP-2D receives an Ethernet DD packet via DD, does it "repeat"
(actually, store and forward) the packet to the same frequency?

Or, if the RP-2D doesn't do that, does the RP-2C?

In other words, can two ID-1 sites communicate w/ each other via a local
RP-2D site?
Yes and no. The RP-2D/RP-2C combo isn't an Ethernet bridge, and doesn't
seem to maintain an ARP table or TCAM or anything like that, at least
not by MAC address. (I suppose it might be doing so based on MY/YOUR calls.)

If you have 2 ID-1s on the same frequency and set to DD RPS, with
cross-matching MY/YOUR calls and sharing the same RPT1 call, then yes,
they form (basically) a point-to-point bridging tunnel between the
ID-1s. Multiple such tunnels should be able to run concurrently, limited
only by available channel time/transmitter duty cycle, etc.

However, a lone 3rd ID-1 can't talk to anyone. For multipoint (ie,
long-distance wireless LAN), you need an IP router hooked into the RP-2C
box. There are a few ways you can set it up (some of which probably
aren't compatible with using the G2 gateway software on the same stack),
but the key part is for each machine to not try talking directly to the
others, but instead to send via the IP gateway. Using a router with a
number of secondary IPs sliced up into /30-sized networks should work,
or you could use PPPoE, or you can play tricks with destination NAT (but
that requires extra special setup for the reverse routing.) As long as
the packets flow from machine A into the controller via the RF port, to
the router, and back to the controller and out via RF again, it should
be fine. Just setting up machines in the same subnet doesn't work,
because the repeater doesn't actually repeat or digipeat; the client
machines will never hear each other's ARP requests.

--
Peter Corbett :: KD8GBL
peter@...
Re: RPS vs simplex

Dean Gibson AE7Q
 

开云体育

On 2010-09-30 15:32, Tom Azlin N4ZPT wrote: 
Do not know details inside the radio but if not in RPS the ID-1 does not try to be a bridge even when the mode is DD.

On 9/30/2010 3:53 PM, Dean Gibson AE7Q wrote:
  
Another question:  on the ID-1, what is the functional/operational difference between "RPS" operation and simplex?  I know RPS operation is for DD operations, but what does it DO?
    





Hmm, I thought the ID-1 in DD mode just passed Ethernet data in either
direction w/o changing it, regardless of the "RP" setting.? Perhaps the
difference is in the D-Star header?? Perhaps the RP-2C won't route data
in simplex mode?? That seems weird.



Or, have you seen instances where the ID-1 would not pass data locally
in both directions in simplex mode?



-- Dean




				
				
				
			

			
			

	

	
			

			

				
					

				
				
			

			

				

					

				

			

			
			
			

			


				
	



		
			
		
			
				
	
		
	

		
			

			
			

			
			
				
				

					

						
							
							

							Re: RPS vs simplex
							
						
					

				

				

			
			

				

					


						
							
								
								
									Tom Azlin N4ZPT
								
							
						
					

					

						
							


						
						 
						
							
							
						
						
					

				

			

			

			

				
Do not know details inside the radio but if not in RPS the ID-1 does not try to be a bridge even when the mode is DD.

				
					
					

					


On 9/30/2010 3:53 PM, Dean Gibson AE7Q wrote:
Another question:  on the ID-1, what is the functional/operational
difference between "RPS" operation and simplex?  I know RPS operation is
for DD operations, but what does it DO?

					


				
				
				
			

			
			

	

	
			

			

				
					

				
				
			

			

				

					

				

			

			
			
			

			


				
	



		
			
		
	

	
	
	
	


	

		
		
		
		
		
	

	

		
		
		
		
		
	

	
	

		
		
		
		
	



	

		

			
	
		

			
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