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New file uploaded to D-STAR_23cm
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New file uploaded to D-STAR_23cm
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Description : Weak D-STAR Signal versus Weak FM Signal - USA
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Moderator's Note: MOTOTRBO like NXDN is designed for business communications. MOTOTRBO like NXDN & P25 has no callsign ID of radios and radios are channelized & not easily frequency agile.
Icom has an interesting white paper comparing NXDN FDMA to MOTOTRBO TDMA at: www.idas625.com/Information_Paper_FDMA_TDMA.pdf
This group is not meant to be a discussion of whether D-STAR is better or worse than P25 or MOTOTRBO or NXDN, but it can be helpful to understand the capabilities of other commercial digital voice technologies since hams often consider using them instead of D-STAR.
Mototrbo is a much better protocol than NXDN. Audio is much better and it is 2 time slot TDMA, allowing digital data and digital voice on the same frequency simultaneously or two digital voice conversations. It is also open protocol, and thus legal on the ham bands. It is set ip for RoIP out of the box, no external equipment needed. Future expansion to 4 time slot TDMA is coming soon, as is mixed mode repeaters allowing analog users to use it as well as digital, similar to P25, but at a much lower cost. The fact that D* doesn't do mixed mode or multiple time slots is a big disadvantage in my opinion. Hams are using trbo equipment like crazy on the west coast for wide area linked systems. The cost of a mototrbo repeater is only about $2400, too, about the same as a single D* repeater and controller.
I'm not sure that their data throughput can live up to the 128k of D*, though.
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
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-----Original Message----- From: W4ART Arthur Feller <afeller@...> Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 23:20:48 To: <D-STAR_23cm@...> Subject: Re: [D-STAR_23cm] NXDN Moderator's Note: There is a small group in a rural area of central Illinois that are also using Icom IDAS NXDN radios & a repeater. It works OK for them. Of course NXDN systems don't integrate into the D-STAR network, but I suppose they could be connected to IRLP or Echolink or maybe the Asterisk technology. Hi, Moderator! Thanks for the note. Some amateur NXDN systems are now operating, according to a ham I met at the Radio Club of America meeting this last weekend. (100th anniversary!!) Been trying to learn more. Although D-STAR is ham oriented, the protocol is very weak in the presence of multi-path propagation. Diversity receivers fix the problem nicely. But, diversity receivers are expensive and not built into repeaters or handheld radios. What to do?? Given that both ICOM and Kenwood designed this system jointly and some hams already use it, it seems that NXDN might be worth a look. I don't know. Lots to learn!! Anybody have knowledge or experience to add? Thanks!! 73, art..... W4ART Arlington VA
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Moderator's Note: There is a small group in a rural area of central Illinois that are also using Icom IDAS NXDN radios & a repeater. It works OK for them. Of course NXDN systems don't integrate into the D-STAR network, but I suppose they could be connected to IRLP or Echolink or maybe the Asterisk technology.
Hi, Moderator!
Thanks for the note.
Some amateur NXDN systems are now operating, according to a ham I met at the Radio Club of America meeting this last weekend. (100th anniversary!!) Been trying to learn more.
Although D-STAR is ham oriented, the protocol is very weak in the presence of multi-path propagation. Diversity receivers fix the problem nicely. But, diversity receivers are expensive and not built into repeaters or handheld radios. What to do??
Given that both ICOM and Kenwood designed this system jointly and some hams already use it, it seems that NXDN might be worth a look. I don't know. Lots to learn!!
Anybody have knowledge or experience to add?
Thanks!!
73, art.....
W4ART Arlington VA
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Moderators Note: NXDN was designed for business communications not ham radio consequently the radios do not have VFOs and are not frequency agile requiring channel programming in advance. Radios & repeaters can do dual-mode FM & Digital Voice on VHF & UHF bands only. NXDN Digital Voice is 6.25 KHz bandwidth using FDMA modulation. While NXDN has the positive performance characteristics of digital voice the radios do not have ham callsign identification. Icom sells networking capability, but it is designed for a closed business network not an open ham oriented network like D-STAR. APCO P25 has many of the same deficiencies when used in ham radio as well.
Hi!
Has anyone on the list explored the NXDN common air interface? Uses the AMBE-2 vocoder and is, otherwise, an open system.
ICOM and Kenwood are producing equipment now.
Looks like it might be more robust than D-STAR, though it's voice or data and not both at the same time.
See:
Thanks!!
73, art.....
W4ART Arlington VA
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As a person that enjoys emergency communications I am always looking for new ways to enhance current systems. I am currently working on several ID-1 Go-Kits that can be used for field deployment in the event of a disaster. I've been enhancing and upgrading, trying to make the system as robust and tactical as possible. However, I seem to be constantly running into issues with the router and the need for a better solution.
I am curious if anybody has tried to use an Open Mesh Router running the RO.B.IN firmware.
It is my intention to create a package that can be deployed outside of a shelter, be fully self sufficient, and be able to communicate with standard electronic devices such as Notebook Computers and other Wi-Fi enabled devices. I plan on utilizing an encryption algorithm to prevent unauthorized use so we don't need to worry about anyone accessing our amateur network that shouldn't. One of my thoughts behind the Open Mesh is that it is a self healing network, the more nodes, the better it operates. Also, if we should find an actual internet connection it is simple to add another router that will make it a better place to speak to the outside world. We can also expand our range to extreme measures if needed, simply by adding additional nodes.
My question is if you've tried to use one of these devices I would love to hear from you. To save on bandwidth I would like to limit the topic to strictly those that have attempted to use an Open Mesh protocol.
Thanks for your support.
Eric Gilderlseeve KD7CAO
Director, Technical Operations
Denton County Amateur Radio Association
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-----Original Message-----
From: Ian
To: novastar@...
Sent: Mon, Nov 23, 2009 8:33 pm
Subject: ID-1 and Vista
Just in case anyone is wondering - you can install the ID-1 software under
Vista and it does work even though the CD is vintage 2004. I'm running Vista
Home Premium on an HP laptop and the ID-1 software sets up a USB serial port
at COM6. The RC-24 control head talks to the virtual display and vice versa.
73, Ian N8IK
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I have been running Windows 7 on my laptop with the ID1 software installed with no issues.? Here are a few things to do. ? 1)????? ?Make sure you are the machine administrator – this can be done by clicking on the start button then right clicking on ?Computer and selecting manage.? ?Click on? the chevron to the left of Local Users and Groups to expand the folder and select groups.? In the right pane double click the Administrators group and verify that you see the account you are using is in this group.? If not then log into the computer using an account that is a member of the administrators group. 2)????? Don’t install the software until you have actually plugged the radio into the computer.? I know this is backwards but believe me it works. 3)????? When you do run the setup, right click on the setup icon and click run as an administrator from the choices. 4)????? The USB to serial drivers on the ID1 disk will work if you follow the above.? If I can provide any more information, please don’t hesitate to ask ? 73 ? Kerry (VE6KGA) ?
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From: D-STAR_23cm@... [mailto:D-STAR_23cm@...] On Behalf Of D-STAR_23cm-owner@...
Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 9:02 AM
To: D-STAR_23cm@...
Subject: [D-STAR_23cm] ID-1 and Windows 7? ? Hi all:
I recently had to buy a new computer for my shack due to the failure of a Windows XP machine. I have been running my ID-1 through the computer because operation is so much easier in D-Star mode than using the control face. The new computer is a Windows 7 machine and I have been unable to get the Icom ID-1 software to work with it. Has anyone on the reflector also experienced this? The program comes up on the computer, but no matter what port number I try, and I tried all 256 of them, the radio simply will not respond. I'm guessing that Icom will have to come up with a new disc for W7.
I have sent an email to the Icom Technical Support people and am awaiting a reply.
73, Don
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Remember, the only need to talk to the radio over the USB port is to program the radio, and that can be done with the front panel. ? For High Speed Data transfer, no special software is needed and any OS works. ? Ed WA4YIH ?
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From: D-STAR_23cm@... [mailto:D-STAR_23cm@...] On Behalf Of kk9h
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 12:36 PM
To: D-STAR_23cm@...
Subject: [D-STAR_23cm] Re: ID-1 and Windows 7? ? This is pretty much what I expected. My new computer has Windows 7 Professional which is 64 bit. I have not received a response from the Icom tech people yet, but I hope they will say that they will be coming out with a driver that will work.
73, Don
--- In D-STAR_23cm@..., "vk8hf" <vk8faab@...> wrote:
>
> Don,
> de VK8HF out here in DArwin, Australia. I also had the same problem but found out when I loaded Windows 7 and used the 64 bit version that ICOM software for the ID-1 does not work. If you install the 32 bit version of Windows 7 the control software for should then work. In other words ICOM has not come out with 64 bit drivers for the control software for the ID-1 as of yet. Guess we'll just have to wait.
>
> 73 - VK8HF
>
>
>
> --- In D-STAR_23cm@..., D-STAR_23cm-owner@... wrote:
> >
> > Hi all:
> >
> > I recently had to buy a new computer for my shack due to the failure of a Windows XP machine. I have been running my ID-1 through the computer because operation is so much easier in D-Star mode than using the control face. The new computer is a Windows 7 machine and I have been unable to get the Icom ID-1 software to work with it. Has anyone on the reflector also experienced this? The program comes up on the computer, but no matter what port number I try, and I tried all 256 of them, the radio simply will not respond. I'm guessing that Icom will have to come up with a new disc for W7.
> >
> > I have sent an email to the Icom Technical Support people and am awaiting a reply.
> >
> > 73, Don
> >
>
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This is pretty much what I expected. My new computer has Windows 7 Professional which is 64 bit. I have not received a response from the Icom tech people yet, but I hope they will say that they will be coming out with a driver that will work.
73, Don
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--- In D-STAR_23cm@..., "vk8hf" <vk8faab@...> wrote:
Don,
de VK8HF out here in DArwin, Australia. I also had the same problem but found out when I loaded Windows 7 and used the 64 bit version that ICOM software for the ID-1 does not work. If you install the 32 bit version of Windows 7 the control software for should then work. In other words ICOM has not come out with 64 bit drivers for the control software for the ID-1 as of yet. Guess we'll just have to wait.
73 - VK8HF
--- In D-STAR_23cm@..., D-STAR_23cm-owner@... wrote:
Hi all:
I recently had to buy a new computer for my shack due to the failure of a Windows XP machine. I have been running my ID-1 through the computer because operation is so much easier in D-Star mode than using the control face. The new computer is a Windows 7 machine and I have been unable to get the Icom ID-1 software to work with it. Has anyone on the reflector also experienced this? The program comes up on the computer, but no matter what port number I try, and I tried all 256 of them, the radio simply will not respond. I'm guessing that Icom will have to come up with a new disc for W7.
I have sent an email to the Icom Technical Support people and am awaiting a reply.
73, Don
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Hi All
I'm Kevin G7UXW. New to the group. I have 2 ID-1's That I use for data links back to my Qth when on Raynet duties.......
I hope to find some useful help here, as I've been struggeling here a bit in the UK, not many 23cms DD radios let alone repeaters.............
73 Kevin G7UXW IO91QE
eom
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Have you guys thought about running Apple Macs? I use Parallels virtualization on mine and can run XP, Win 2000, even DOS if needed.
Warren
KC9IL
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I own four Macs. I have always wondered why all the D Star software wasn't written to run on OS X? It would make things a lot easier.
Buddy WB4OMG
In a message dated 11/21/09 12:51:32 PM, pughwj@... writes:
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Have you guys thought about running Apple Macs?
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de VK8HF here in Darwin, Australia. The radio does show up in the Device Manager but where the problem lies, there are no 64 bit drivers for Windows 7 yet from ICOM for the ID-1 software. If you install the 32 bit version of Windows 7 the ICOM ID-1 control software should then work.
-----------------
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--- In D-STAR_23cm@..., beamar <beamar@...> wrote:
Have you looked in Control Panel>Device Manager>Ports(Com&LPT) to see
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Don,
de VK8HF out here in DArwin, Australia. I also had the same problem but found out when I loaded Windows 7 and used the 64 bit version that ICOM software for the ID-1 does not work. If you install the 32 bit version of Windows 7 the control software for should then work. In other words ICOM has not come out with 64 bit drivers for the control software for the ID-1 as of yet. Guess we'll just have to wait.
73 - VK8HF
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--- In D-STAR_23cm@..., D-STAR_23cm-owner@... wrote:
Hi all:
I recently had to buy a new computer for my shack due to the failure of a Windows XP machine. I have been running my ID-1 through the computer because operation is so much easier in D-Star mode than using the control face. The new computer is a Windows 7 machine and I have been unable to get the Icom ID-1 software to work with it. Has anyone on the reflector also experienced this? The program comes up on the computer, but no matter what port number I try, and I tried all 256 of them, the radio simply will not respond. I'm guessing that Icom will have to come up with a new disc for W7.
I have sent an email to the Icom Technical Support people and am awaiting a reply.
73, Don
|
Yes, the radio shows up in device manager. I am not at that computer now, but there was no "Ports(Com&LPT). I looked for that. Windows 7 does some of this stuff differently than previous XP and Vista.
Unfortunately, I am not much of a computer guy, so if it isn't simple and obvious, I often have problems getting things to work.
73, Don
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--- In D-STAR_23cm@..., beamar <beamar@...> wrote:
Have you looked in Control Panel>Device Manager>Ports(Com&LPT) to see
if the radio shows up there? - Buddy
On Nov 20, 2009, at 1:30:38 PM, kk9h <kk9h@...> wrote:
none of the ports will connect with the radio.
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I know what the issue is, your running into a driver issue. Had the same problem with my Vista computer.
You need to visit the FTDI Drivers page.
The address for your quick access:
I don't recall the exact chipset Icom used, however there are only two versions of the driver, download them both and take a shot at it, or see if someone else will post the chipset version and then use that one.
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--- In D-STAR_23cm@..., "kk9h" <kk9h@...> wrote:
Yes, there is an XP virtual support for W7. It is a separate download and I may try that later, but I would like to try to keep things pure Windows 7 if possible. Thanks for the idea.
Don
--- In D-STAR_23cm@..., Andy <mm0fmf@> wrote:
Doesn't Windows7 have XP virtual support? Can't you run the Icom software on a XP VM ?
Andy
MM0FMF
To: D-STAR_23cm@...
From: D-STAR_23cm-owner@...
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 16:01:37 +0000
Subject: [D-STAR_23cm] ID-1 and Windows 7
Hi all:
I recently had to buy a new computer for my shack due to the failure of a Windows XP machine. I have been running my ID-1 through the computer because operation is so much easier in D-Star mode than using the control face. The new computer is a Windows 7 machine and I have been unable to get the Icom ID-1 software to work with it. Has anyone on the reflector also experienced this? The program comes up on the computer, but no matter what port number I try, and I tried all 256 of them, the radio simply will not respond. I'm guessing that Icom will have to come up with a new disc for W7.
I have sent an email to the Icom Technical Support people and am awaiting a reply.
73, Don
_________________________________________________________________
Windows 7: It works the way you want. Learn more.
|
Have you looked in Control Panel>Device Manager>Ports(Com&LPT) to see if the radio shows up there? - Buddy
On Nov 20, 2009, at 1:30:38 PM, kk9h wrote: none of the ports will connect with the radio.
|
Yes, there is an XP virtual support for W7. It is a separate download and I may try that later, but I would like to try to keep things pure Windows 7 if possible. Thanks for the idea.
Don
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--- In D-STAR_23cm@..., Andy <mm0fmf@...> wrote:
Doesn't Windows7 have XP virtual support? Can't you run the Icom software on a XP VM ?
Andy
MM0FMF
To: D-STAR_23cm@...
From: D-STAR_23cm-owner@...
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 16:01:37 +0000
Subject: [D-STAR_23cm] ID-1 and Windows 7
Hi all:
I recently had to buy a new computer for my shack due to the failure of a Windows XP machine. I have been running my ID-1 through the computer because operation is so much easier in D-Star mode than using the control face. The new computer is a Windows 7 machine and I have been unable to get the Icom ID-1 software to work with it. Has anyone on the reflector also experienced this? The program comes up on the computer, but no matter what port number I try, and I tried all 256 of them, the radio simply will not respond. I'm guessing that Icom will have to come up with a new disc for W7.
I have sent an email to the Icom Technical Support people and am awaiting a reply.
73, Don
_________________________________________________________________
Windows 7: It works the way you want. Learn more.
|
Eric KD7CAO