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As mentioned in another Bucket List post,? " Not surprisingly, battery Voltage when using dry cells is not stable over time. I jokingly call dry cells a 1/4 cycle AC generator. Compared to a real sine wave plot, the start at the + peak and go down to the zero crossover level, one time.This changing Voltage was investigated, and sure enough, even a small change in applied DCV will alter the HV output and LV -15V output, causing changes in meter readings for a steady input pulse signal."
Enter the AMS1117-3.3 regulator module:
Alone this $1 USD module stabilizes the LENi and at least some other CDC-700, It goes in the line between battery or other DC? power source and the battery negative (hot) wire.? It works best from 3.7V up to over 15V. Changing the input V up and down leaves the CPM Meter, HV etc. stable. Perfect for 18650 conversions.
Caveat: Running these AMS1117-xx way above their regulated Voltage ( say, more that a few V) will cause them to dissipate the
excess energy as heat, limiting their current output. For 12V operation it might be wise to first use the similar 5V regulator module ahead of the 3.3V one.
FYI, a converted ENi with SPeak2Me modules is running around 85mA current.
More to follow
Geo
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Update, Li cell 18650 on DigiKey, data sheet shows the one they sell as 2600mAh or 2.6A/h Other sources claim far more but one wonders it that's advertising hype.
With even 100mA current, which should be well within the 0.2C rating, a single cell would power an?ENi/LENi/Lionel CDV-700? for at least 26 hours continuous use.
Geo
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Geo:
????????????????????????? Lithium Ion?????????????????? Lithium Iron Phosphate
fully charged????? 4.2V????????????????????????????? 3.6V
discharged????????? 3.3V????????????????????????????? 3V
The voltages I listed for the fully charged is absolute. The discharged voltage can be pushed further down and still be considered safe, but for longer cycle life, i use the above cut offs.
Voltage discharge curve for both types of secondary lithium cells is not flat like NiCd/NimH
C is the capacity of a battery. Lithium batteries have a rated max discharge rate of xxC. Higher C rated batteries will have? a lower mAhr capacity.
Most high C rated batteries are 1800~2500mAhr, while the lower C rate batteries can be more than 3000mAhr.
In addition to the different internal construction and chemistry for the low vs high C rated, the internal PTC ( Positive Temperature Coef) protector is different.
If the current draw is low ie for the CDV-700, the low xxC batteries with the higher mAhr capacities should be fine.
Once again your mileage may vary. Name brand, Sony, Sanyo Panasonic, Samsung, LG chemical are typically good.Others are dubious.
Old stock Lithium cells are a no-no.? The have a limited shelf life and highly depended upon the state of charge when stored.
P
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Good info. I need more knowledge about paralleling cells, Series/ parallel, how the internal charge controls work, do they all have internal PCB for charge control, if not what needs to be added etc. In other words, I know little to nada on the subject. The DigiTek data sheet showed discharge rate to be 0.2C, that over twiice as much as a typical GC needs. An ENi with Russian transistors runs 85mA.
On the real "batteries", that is, stacked cells in an enclosure to fit say, a drill or other tool, they automatically shut themselves off to avoid what I can only guess is a full-discharge type failure mode?
I have to check the AMS1117-3.3 today with a digital Voltmeter to gather some more info too. It's seems (using analog meters) that it will keep working right down close to the 3.3V output, but I don't know the min. requirement.
For example if a LENi or other GC is set up with an INTERNAL, isolated from ground? PROBE, the power can be applied by a vehicle's battery by floating the single PCB ground-to-case trace. That's what I'm going to do with a high range Russian probe in my new LENi War GC Meter,?starting with Si3BG which is about 10 times less sensitive than a 6993.
Peter, what the 5V DC current capacity of a typical laptop or notebook? Enough to charge a 18650?
Geo
----- Original Message ----- From: peter via groups.io <epkoncept@...> To: [email protected]Sent: Fri, 27 May 2022 08:37:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [CDV700CLUB] Bucket List- Stabilize ENi/LENi/Lionel CDV-700 HV and LV power supplies and possible lead-in to rechargeable 18650 batteries.
[Edited Message Follows]
Geo:
????????????????????????? Lithium Ion?????????????????? Lithium Iron Phosphate
fully charged????? 4.2V????????????????????????????? 3.6V
discharged????????? 3.3V????????????????????????????? 3V
The voltages I listed for the fully charged is absolute. The discharged voltage can be pushed further down and still be considered safe, but for longer cycle life, i use the above cut offs.
Voltage discharge curve for both types of secondary lithium cells is not flat like NiCd/NimH
C is the capacity of a battery. Lithium batteries have a rated max discharge rate of xxC. Higher C rated batteries will have? a lower mAhr capacity.
Most high C rated batteries are 1800~2500mAhr, while the lower C rate batteries can be more than 3000mAhr.
In addition to the different internal construction and chemistry for the low vs high C rated, the internal PTC ( Positive Temperature Coef) protector is different.
If the current draw is low ie for the CDV-700, the low xxC batteries with the higher mAhr capacities should be fine.
Once again your mileage may vary. Name brand, Sony, Sanyo Panasonic, Samsung, LG chemical are typically good.Others are dubious.
Old stock Lithium cells are a no-no.? The have a limited shelf life and highly depended upon the state of charge when stored.
P
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Lithium chemistry doesn't tolerate over charging.?
For example a single cell on a constant current/constant voltage charger could charge a cell at a max current rate of 1C, in the constant current portion of the charge cycle, and? then the current will taper to zero?
as the max charge voltage would be set to 4.20V.
Problem occurs if there are series connected cells. Cell to cell variation, or temperature differences in a pack will cause the cells to age differently so the capacity will vary.
So the cells with lower capacity(mAhr) will charge first and then be over charged unless there is a balance or Battery Management System( BMS) attached to each series connected cell in a pack.?
Basically, the balancer/BMS clamps each cell to a max of 4.20 V
If possible I prefer not have have an integrated BMS( there is some self discharge).? Also integrated BMS's can't tolerate high speed charging as they can't shunt a high current.
I will wire a connector to each cell so an external balancer can be connected, and it also allows me to check each cell voltage in a series connected pack.
Most model RC LiPo packs have a balancer connector.
Paralleling batteries of the same brand/model number is nominally not an issue.
P
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The absolute max capacity for an 18650 lipo is 3400mah. I own a
bunch of ultrafire brand cells. The high capacity (less than 3000
mah) cells' voltage will collapse under high load then recover.
They are poor candidates for power drills, but for low steady
discharge like a geiger counter, they should work well and are
relatively cheap if you buy them on eBay from China
On 5/27/2022 8:00 AM, Geo Dowell wrote:
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Show quoted text
Update, Li cell 18650 on DigiKey, data sheet shows the one they
sell as 2600mAh or 2.6A/h Other sources claim far more but one
wonders it that's advertising hype.
With even 100mA current, which should be well within the 0.2C
rating, a single cell would power an?ENi/LENi/Lionel CDV-700? for
at least 26 hours continuous use.
Geo
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Advertising Hype?? You mean I can’t really step up from 2600mAh cells at $1.87 to the 9900mAh cells for $2.08, only $.21 more!? Darn, I guess I really didn’t want those wimpy cells anyway when I can buy a 5000000mAh power bank for $17.79!? and it has a built-in 2W solar cell for recharging!? That’s about 1/3 of the power in a Tesla battery and it fits in a pocket!? I could power a home built electric car for about $50.? I could power my house during power outages!? The only problem is I can’t find a USB-C cable rated for more than a couple of Amps.? I’m sure if I look at enough listings I will find one.? I think the solar cell might be a typo, they probably meant 2000W, in not it might be little under powered to recharge it, a quick guess is about a year and a half to charge if you can get 24hr sunshine.? Time to look at eBay real estate for a house with 24 hr sunshine and their at their solar cells for a small 3000W cell I can mount on the little power banks so I can charge them in around 8 hours on the dashboard.? (And then he wakes up)? Why doesn’t eBay have any fact checkers?? So much BS on their site. ? Sorry, I have been looking at options for converting some of my nice flashlights to rechargeable (and my G.C.s) and ran across those insane claims for the cells and the power banks.? I did buy a 10,000mAh power bank on clearance at Sams Club for $9.31 that included a 10W wireless charging pad.? I want to experiment with wireless charging sometime, I can order the magnetic loop antennas off of- oh yeah, here we go again... ? Clay ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Geo Dowell
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2022 6:01 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [CDV700CLUB] Bucket List- Stabilize ENi/LENi/Lionel CDV-700 HV and LV power supplies and possible lead-in to rechargeable 18650 batteries.? Update, Li cell 18650 on DigiKey, data sheet shows the one they sell as 2600mAh or 2.6A/h Other sources claim far more but one wonders it that's advertising hype.
With even 100mA current, which should be well within the 0.2C rating, a single cell would power an?ENi/LENi/Lionel CDV-700? for at least 26 hours continuous use.
Geo
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"5000000mAh power bank for $17.79!? and it has a built-in 2W solar cell for recharging! "
still laughing! heehee.
George?
----- Original Message ----- From: freshndaire <fanman@...> To: [email protected]Sent: Tue, 31 May 2022 14:52:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [CDV700CLUB] Bucket List- Stabilize ENi/LENi/Lionel CDV-700 HV and LV power supplies and possible lead-in to rechargeable 18650 batteries.
Advertising Hype?? You mean I can’t really step up from 2600mAh cells at $1.87 to the 9900mAh cells for $2.08, only $.21 more!? Darn, I guess I really didn’t want those wimpy cells anyway when I can buy a 5000000mAh power bank for $17.79!? and it has a built-in 2W solar cell for recharging!? That’s about 1/3 of the power in a Tesla battery and it fits in a pocket!? I could power a home built electric car for about $50.? I could power my house during power outages!? The only problem is I can’t find a USB-C cable rated for more than a couple of Amps.? I’m sure if I look at enough listings I will find one.? I think the solar cell might be a typo, they probably meant 2000W, in not it might be little under powered to recharge it, a quick guess is about a year and a half to charge if you can get 24hr sunshine.? Time to look at eBay real estate for a house with 24 hr sunshine and their at their solar cells for a small 3000W cell I can mount on the little power banks so I can charge them in around 8 hours on the dashboard.? (And then he wakes up)? Why doesn’t eBay have any fact checkers?? So much BS on their site. ? Sorry, I have been looking at options for converting some of my nice flashlights to rechargeable (and my G.C.s) and ran across those insane claims for the cells and the power banks.? I did buy a 10,000mAh power bank on clearance at Sams Club for $9.31 that included a 10W wireless charging pad.? I want to experiment with wireless charging sometime, I can order the magnetic loop antennas off of- oh yeah, here we go again... ? Clay ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Geo Dowell
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2022 6:01 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [CDV700CLUB] Bucket List- Stabilize ENi/LENi/Lionel CDV-700 HV and LV power supplies and possible lead-in to rechargeable 18650 batteries. ? Update, Li cell 18650 on DigiKey, data sheet shows the one they sell as 2600mAh or 2.6A/h Other sources claim far more but one wonders it that's advertising hype.
With even 100mA current, which should be well within the 0.2C rating, a single cell would power an?ENi/LENi/Lionel CDV-700? for at least 26 hours continuous use.
Geo
|
"5000000mAh power bank'
Danger! 3700 mVolts!
----- Original Message ----- From: freshndaire <fanman@...> To: [email protected]Sent: Tue, 31 May 2022 14:52:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [CDV700CLUB] Bucket List- Stabilize ENi/LENi/Lionel CDV-700 HV and LV power supplies and possible lead-in to rechargeable 18650 batteries.
Advertising Hype?? You mean I can’t really step up from 2600mAh cells at $1.87 to the 9900mAh cells for $2.08, only $.21 more!? Darn, I guess I really didn’t want those wimpy cells anyway when I can buy a 5000000mAh power bank for $17.79!? and it has a built-in 2W solar cell for recharging!? That’s about 1/3 of the power in a Tesla battery and it fits in a pocket!? I could power a home built electric car for about $50.? I could power my house during power outages!? The only problem is I can’t find a USB-C cable rated for more than a couple of Amps.? I’m sure if I look at enough listings I will find one.? I think the solar cell might be a typo, they probably meant 2000W, in not it might be little under powered to recharge it, a quick guess is about a year and a half to charge if you can get 24hr sunshine.? Time to look at eBay real estate for a house with 24 hr sunshine and their at their solar cells for a small 3000W cell I can mount on the little power banks so I can charge them in around 8 hours on the dashboard.? (And then he wakes up)? Why doesn’t eBay have any fact checkers?? So much BS on their site. ? Sorry, I have been looking at options for converting some of my nice flashlights to rechargeable (and my G.C.s) and ran across those insane claims for the cells and the power banks.? I did buy a 10,000mAh power bank on clearance at Sams Club for $9.31 that included a 10W wireless charging pad.? I want to experiment with wireless charging sometime, I can order the magnetic loop antennas off of- oh yeah, here we go again... ? Clay ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Geo Dowell
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2022 6:01 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [CDV700CLUB] Bucket List- Stabilize ENi/LENi/Lionel CDV-700 HV and LV power supplies and possible lead-in to rechargeable 18650 batteries. ? Update, Li cell 18650 on DigiKey, data sheet shows the one they sell as 2600mAh or 2.6A/h Other sources claim far more but one wonders it that's advertising hype.
With even 100mA current, which should be well within the 0.2C rating, a single cell would power an?ENi/LENi/Lionel CDV-700? for at least 26 hours continuous use.
Geo
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It’s even worse, they are 5000mV out.? ? I engraved the two signs in the picture signs back in the 80s.? The red sign was a joke.? The black sign not so much.? I used to work with a lot of engineers, some would bring you a project then wait for you to start working on it not realizing you had a system down with test time that was worth $225/hr and the person that runs it waiting for you to get the parts and fix it. ?Adding more pressure didn’t help.? That black sign worked most of the time. ? Clay ?
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Show quoted text
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Geo Dowell
Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2022 1:19 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [CDV700CLUB] Bucket List- Stabilize ENi/LENi/Lionel CDV-700 HV and LV power supplies and possible lead-in to rechargeable 18650 batteries.?
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"That black sign worked most of the time."?
Yep, and the yellow button sums it all up.
In my position I thought: "Yellow Button" but said: Yes SIR! Right away SIR!
Geo
----- Original Message ----- From: freshndaire <fanman@...> To: [email protected]Sent: Tue, 31 May 2022 15:53:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [CDV700CLUB] Bucket List- Stabilize ENi/LENi/Lionel CDV-700 HV and LV power supplies and possible lead-in to rechargeable 18650 batteries.
It’s even worse, they are 5000mV out.? ? I engraved the two signs in the picture signs back in the 80s.? The red sign was a joke.? The black sign not so much.? I used to work with a lot of engineers, some would bring you a project then wait for you to start working on it not realizing you had a system down with test time that was worth $225/hr and the person that runs it waiting for you to get the parts and fix it. ?Adding more pressure didn’t help.? That black sign worked most of the time. ? Clay ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Geo Dowell
Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2022 1:19 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [CDV700CLUB] Bucket List- Stabilize ENi/LENi/Lionel CDV-700 HV and LV power supplies and possible lead-in to rechargeable 18650 batteries. ?
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David71
