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Maxnc - don't buy it!
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Hugh Prescott
Used to be a video of an F-15 max performance takeoff at Lambert St. Louis,
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1 minute later he was still over the airport (at 100K + altitude). Thats impressive!! Have a safe fourth. Heard a nice talk yesterday about the revisionism being done to the WW II era. Nice gentleman, local Quincy, IL boy, WW II B-17 & B-29 pilot, Paul Tibbits Isnt happy about it. ----- Original Message -----
From: Carey L. Culpepper <mr.c@...> To: <CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@...> Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2000 9:29 AM Subject: Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Maxnc - don't buy it! Doug: That will work. Thanks!discussion of shop built systems, for CAD, CAM, EDM, and DRO.
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Hugh Prescott
What a difference a 0 makes, sorry.
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From: Jon Anderson <janders@...> To: <CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@...> Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2000 6:06 PM Subject: Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Maxnc - don't buy it! Hugh Prescott wrote:discussion of shop built systems, for CAD, CAM, EDM, and DRO.Yeah, I'd say 100,000fpm rate of climb would be impressive!
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Tim,
I noticed that 3D surfacing was mentioned somewhere along the thread of this discussion. Have you (or has anyone else) done any 3D surfacing using EMC? My understanding, after talking to Fred, was that the G-Code interpreter wasn't fast enough to do any heavy-duty surfacing. Actually, I guess a better reference question would be what is considered heavy-duty surfacing? -John |
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Mike Rainone
Thanks, Jon.
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There is no excuse for that kind of negligence. Maybe that is why Dan took the link from Maxnc off of his website, or at least I didn't see it the last time I looked. The TIMESET function works find on two axis', though it did not drive the third. The so-called instruction manual says something about the Z axis requiring an alternative parallel port address. How that works is beyond me, especially when the the pin out diagram indicates pins 6 & 7 are for Z step and direction. So I don't know what I have to do to get it to work. Anyway, I think that the lesson is clear, buy Maxnc at you own risk, in fact, don't buy it at all. What little I know of them is that they are just another machine shop outfit that solved a problem for themselves and are foisting the solution, half-baked as it is, on the rest of us. I don't care how well the program works for them, if an outside user can't use it, or has such bad documentation such that an outside user can't figure it out, it shouldn't be sold. That is the definition of fraud in my books. Sorry for the vitriol, but I am really pissed! I don't intend to ask for a refund, but will do my damnedest to keep other people from buying it, at least until they get off of there dead arses and have some decent documentation written for it. So, every time the question comes up about controller software you will see the "Maxnc - don't buy it" subject line appear. Problem is, what is the alternative? Yeager, Kellyware - I need true 3D. Any suggestion? Mike Jon Anderson wrote: Mike, |
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Bob Campbell
Mike,
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I will let you use my copy of cncpro if you want to test with it. I will not need it back for a couple of weeks. Bob Campbell ----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Rainone <mrain1@...> To: <CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@...> Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2000 5:29 PM Subject: Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Maxnc - don't buy it! Thanks, Jon.the link from Maxnc off of his website, or at least I didn't see it the last time I looked. The TIMESET function works find ontwo axis', though it did not drive the third. The so-called instruction manual says something about the Z axis requiring analternative parallel port address. How that works is beyond me, especially when the the pin out diagram indicates pins 6 & 7 are for Zstep and direction. So I don't know what I have to do to get it to work.fact, don't buy it at all. What little I know of them is that they are just another machine shop outfit that solved a problem forthemselves and are foisting the solution, half-baked as it is, on the rest of us. I don't care how well the program works for them,if an outside user can't use it, or has such bad documentation such that an outside user can't figure it out, it shouldn'tbe sold. That is the definition of fraud in my books. Sorry for the vitriol, but I am really pissed! I don't intend to ask for arefund, but will do my damnedest to keep other people from buying it, at least until they get off of there dead arses and havesome decent documentation written for it. So, every time the question comes up about controller software you will see the "Maxnc -don't buy it" subject line appear. Any suggestion? discussion of shop built systems, for CAD, CAM, EDM, and DRO. discussion of shop built systems, for CAD, CAM, EDM, and DRO.
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Jon Anderson
Mike,
Much as many here don't like the closed nature of the hardware, I have to say Flashcut is a really decent total package. It's not the cheapest however. Several years ago I was involved in rapid turnaround prototyping of surgical devices, mostly making parts from various plastics. The fellow I was doing the parts for was also small and frugal (broke...). We both needed CNC, but couldn't afford big iron. I spotted the MaxNC soon after it came out and he bought one right away, then bought another for me. (well, financed it for me really). We quickly discovered the limitations of the hardware/software. By then I'd found Flashcut, and he promptly bought a full setup. Feeling this had more potential, he tried to take the hardware as far as possible. We both worked on a lot of mechanical improvements to the Sherline, and Flashcut displayed the 2nd one we designed (and I built) at a machine tool show in Santa Clara. This machine, with major tweaking, has turned out parts just as accurate as a full machining center, producing full 3D contoured parts in various plastics. It was a lot of work, and really the two biggest advantages were it ended up costing less than a Mori Seki, and it took up a lot less room. (these medical parts were machined on the deck of a 2nd story apartment in Palo Alto, neighbors never knew a thing!) So, Flashcut is certainly capable. Ron Worth will answer questions, and they are further developing both the software and hardware. Documentation is near state of the art for hobby level CNC. Call or visit their website and request a demo, if they still have them available. I really don't know the cost, but software/hardware is probably going to run something under $2k. If that's too steep, I can also recommend Ahha. Documentation isn't laid out in the most logical fashion, but I've only had to call for help once. It's reliable and has some nice features, though it really hacks me off that the $500 version doesn't include single block execution (one line at a time), you have to buy the $1100 version for that. Lack of MDI, or command line input is also a pain since I'm used to having it. Those are features even MaxNC is able to implement in their software. I doubt Ahha will do anything about this, and in fact, they don't seem to be doing much in the way of development. That's more than .02 worth.... Jon |
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Doug Fortune
Mike Rainone wrote:
Problem is, what is the alternative? Yeager, Kellyware - I need true 3D. Any suggestion?We have used the free Kellyware under Windoze to do true 3D using the free trial version (only does 4 files) of to generate the GCode from STL and DXF files. So Kellywares KCam does true 3D. But it doesn't do circles G02/G03 in a standard way, so its not too great for 2D. Also, because its Windoze it doesn't do real time (ie smooth motions) all the time. But it does have a jog mode with variable speed, so its pretty good for manual moves (one axis at a time, or linear moves in 2 or 3 axes). However, it is GREAT!! for testing your new hardware setups because it is soooo easy to use. And sooner or later Kelly is bound to address the two above problems. And its free for download, so you can get going right away. After using the above for testing new (stepper S&D parallel port) setups you can move on to more robust (but harder to set up, and more expensive) gcode interpreters. Doug |
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In spite of the opinion that many people have that EMC is too hard for a
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mere mortal to install it is well worth looking at. If you don't want to learn to install it yourself following the instructions given explicitly, there are a number of people that are well versed in setting it up and would probably be willing to setup a system you supplied for far less that the $250.00 you have spent on a half baked package. I know there are people that talk highly of Flashcut, but I have a hard time justifying the price. You can put together one of Dan's 5 amp controllers, user EMC or purchase CNCpro, and buy a copy of Vector and still have plenty of change left over from the cost of Flashcut. This way you get a good solid CAD/CAM package which is much better than the DXF conversion you get in Flashcut. Tim [Denver, CO] -----Original Message----- |
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Mike Rainone
Jon and Bob,
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Thanks, both of you. I will explore both options. I just downloaded Deskncrt, demo and am starting to wade through the documentation. Bob, I wouldn't mind borrowing the CNCpro for testing purposes, so I'll give you a call to drop by, if you don't mind. Whatever works quickest. I am past the stage of being fascinated with technology, I just want to make parts now. Mike Bob Campbell wrote: Mike, |
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Mike Rainone
Thanks, Doug.
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I will give Kellyware a try, too. BTW, I am using Mill Wizard for the GCode, dxf out of Rhino3D. Works great so far. Of course, with the problems I am having with Maxnc, I don't know how well the code runs now, do I? Mike Doug Fortune wrote: Mike Rainone wrote:Problem is, what is the alternative? Yeager, Kellyware - I need true 3D. Any suggestion?We have used the free Kellyware under Windoze |
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Mike Rainone
Hi, Tim.
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Thanks again for all of the great help. As for Linux, I am not intimidated, having been, many years ago and a galaxy far, far away, a Unix systems guy. I do shudder at the memories of horribly time consuming Xenix installs, with 3 thousand, 5 1/4 inch floppies, busted kernels and having been impaled by the imbedded video driver hooks into the kernel. God forbid. While I might hate MS, I sure like the install. I have a P90 with 32meg of RAM and a 1gig hard drive sitting in the shop with DOS only on it. I realize that the 1 gig HD is overkill, but is the rest of the box OK? I know that you have been working on a CD install for the complete idiot and I will be first in that line. Thanks. Mike Tim Goldstein wrote: In spite of the opinion that many people have that EMC is too hard for a |
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It is much faster to setup than what you have experienced. A bare metal
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install takes me from 45 minutes to a couple of hours depending upon the speed of the processor. This does not include the time to configure EMC or to build and test startup scripts. The P90 would work fine if you run the steppermod module, but is a little light for the newer freqmod module. It certainly would get you started and let you see if EMC is for you. The only other concern is if your video card would let you get Xwindows up and running in at least 800 x 600 mode. If you are willing to give it a try and need a copy of RedHat 5.2 (I know there are newer versions and other distributions, but this is the one that is documented and proven with EMC) send me your address off the list and I will get a CD on the way to you. I have not been putting much effort into the EMC for Dummies install, but am willing to help anyone that want to give a stab at it. Maybe with your background you will be the one??? Tim [Denver, CO] -----Original Message----- |
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Jon Anderson
Tim Goldstein wrote:
Who? I've inquired twice, looking for a quote on putting together a working EMC system, except for the STG card, not a single response. Hey, I'm willing to pay actual money! So, if anyone is interested, I'd like a price on a basic linux box setup with both stepper and servo versions, with the stepper version having the DRO card for encoder feedback, if this is fully operational and working. I'll supply moniter, keyboard, mouse; and STG card when I finally collect the parts for a servo setup. Anyone? Jon |
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I really am not any type of surfacing pro and have only played with it to
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see if I could get the Vector skin function to generate a surface (worked as advertised). I really don't know what would be considered heavy-duty surfacing and why Fred Proctor says it is not fast enough. My test experience is that EMC was able to drive my mill as fast as I feel comfortable running it (about 45 ipm) while processing the g-code of a skin output from Vector. Obviously, your mileage may vary. Tim [Denver, CO] -----Original Message----- |
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Jon,
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I would be willing to setup a system for you. I never replied to your previous requests as it seemed the servo setup was part of the primary requirement and I have no experience with one. If you want a working EMC machine for steppers I can help you out. The same machine would be able to support servos with the STG card, but you would have to setup your own .ini file for that. If you want to pursue this contact me off the list at timg@... I am pretty tight on time from now to the end of the month, but could easily get it done in the beginning of August. Tim [Denver, CO] -----Original Message----- |
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Jon Anderson
Tim,
Initially I was looking for servo only. I've been trying to get into a CNC mill for some time now (small struggling one-man-shop), but with the purchase of the Millport and getting it running under Ahha, many possible paths have now been dropped. I'd like to experiment with the encoder feedback and possibly switch my dad over to EMC for his Sherline. Tolerances on his work are getting ever tighter. If/when I do build a CNC attachment for my Hardinge, I might start out with steppers, but really want servos there, as even a single lost step could blow tolerances on a lathe. I'll cross the servo bridge when I come to it however. Further contact on the linux box, offlist... Jon |
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Jon Elson
Mike Rainone wrote:
So, every timeHow about EMC? Yes, it is more difficult to set up, but it WORKS! It drives EITHER steppers or servos, and can run servos with encoder feedback. At some time, it should be possible to mix stepper and servo axes. It DOES 3D just fine, too. The documantation is still a little sparse, but if you need to know something, you can read the code, or ask someone who understands the internals. It is free, too! Now, this is just the machine controller, you still need a 3D CAD/CAM package, but you can use whatever you prefer, as EMC accepts RS-274D commands (G-code). I'm using it with Bobcad/CAM. This is cheap, but has some limitations, and the support isn't the greatest, either. But, you have a choice, there. Jon |
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Jon Elson
Mike Rainone wrote:
Hi, Tim.Well, it is NOT like that any more. I tried installing Linux on a 486, and that WAS slow. Kernel compiles were many hours. But it takes from 30 minutes to 2 hours to install Red Hat Linux in the workstation configuration, if you have compatible hardware and know how to answer some of the questions on hardware and other configuration issues. You have to read the hardware compatibility lists on the Red Hat site (I think these files are on the CD, too). This is the only way to know. IDE disks are compatible, but many people have been 'impaled' by the million incompatible VGA cards. But, most of the major name brand chipsets are supported, so you can usually figure out whether a particular card will work. Jon |
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Jon Elson
Tim Goldstein wrote:
Jon,I would be glad to help with the servo setup for the .ini file. Really, he has to do much of that himself anyway, to set up the encoder resolution, etc. I could send you my .ini file, or advise people on what to do. I don't have a CD writer, yet. Jon |
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Ray Henry
Jon
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I'm going to put together two systems in the next week or so running 2.2.14 under the Mandrake release. If you or anyone else is interested, I'd give you the specs of the kit that I purchase and, IF you purchase the same system, I'd make a mirror of my hard drive and guarantee that it'll start up for you. Price unknown right now but negotiable. I'd enclude a couple versions of the EMC ini for stepper and servo systems. They'd start from kde icons but you'd have to tune them for your machine. I expect to be able to set these up for < $550 US dollars. Ray Message: 20 |
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