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Re: microstepping torque

 

hugo_cnc wrote:

Hi all,

I've a question about microstepping. If I look at the speed vs. torque diagram, the steppers I'm using have a torque of 3 Nm (460 0z/in) at 5000 Hz. This in half step mode, if use microsteppers what happens with the torque. With microsteppers I use 5 times more steps for the same revolution, so at 5000hz the microsteppersriver is sending 25.000 steps. The torque at 25.000 Hz is pretty low.
So basicly the questions is how does microstepping inflect the torque?
Microstepping should not affect the torque. Have you actually observed 3 Nm at 5000 half-steps
per second? I would be very suspicious of this measurement. In general, most steppers lose a
great deal of their holding torque even at moderate speed. 5000 half-steps/sec (where half-steps
give 400 pulses/rev) comes out to 12.5 Rev/sec, or 750 RPM. That is going pretty fast for
large, two-phase steppers. If they really give 3 Nm at this speed, they must have holding torque
of nearly 10 Nm, I'd guess. (5-phase steppers do much better in this regard, though.)

I wonder if this "spec" is really a typo, and the meaning was supposed to be that you get
3 Nm HOLDING torque, and "usable" torque to 5000 half-steps/sec.

Jon


Re: Newbie Questions

Chris Baugher
 

On Mon, 21 Oct 2002, C.S.Mo wrote:

At any rate, I've discovered that I really can't stand using the dials
I find them functional but annoying.

3) I don't expect to have the machine converted to CNC anytime in the
near future, in the meantime I'd really like a DRO for at least the X and
Y axis.
The least expensive method (once you factor in the cost of the
PC/Monitor..etc) and the quickest to get setup seems to be to use
digimatic scales (the ones that are kind of like digital calipers without
the caliper part) with SPC output to an external 3-axis readout. WTtool
sells the readout for $249 and the individual scales are available for
roughly $200 for three, so call it $500 once I make the
You can probably get the scales for a bit cheaper but not a lot. Search
for "JTS machinery" on ebay.

brackets/shipping..etc. The disadvantage to this is, as far as I know, I
can't get the SPC outputs into a PC.
It's possible to do this but you will probably have to build the device
yourself. I think it's been done before but I can't remember where
off hand. Anyway I don't think the SPC output is fast enough (50
samples/sec.) to use for machine control. It's fine for a DRO but that's
probably about it.

I'm planning on using servo motors (already have two) with Gecko drives
for my CNC upgrade. The servo motors have encoders attached so in a sense
the external DRO would be redundant. So, I *could* get the X/Y motors
hooked up (which has a lot of other advantages, but will be very
expensive because all of a suddenly I will have my credit card out and
will be calling Gecko for drives, and getting a power supply
and...and..and..) and use the encoders on the motors with one of the free
DRO software utilities. One disadvantage to this is the servo encoders
will have to compensate for backlash which may or may not be a problem. I
assume it isn't a huge problem because it appears to be common practice.
If the encoders are attached to the motors they won't help with backlash
at all. The encoders need to reflect movement of the *table* and not the
motors. The advantage to servos is that the control system will turn the
motors until the table gets to where it's supposed to be, whether it's X
revolutions or X + a little more because of backlash. Where as steppers
just turn a set amount and assume the table got to where it's supposed to
be.

The other method would be to build my own rotary-to-linear encoder system
which certainly has appeal and could have better resolution than either
of the two previous methods. However I don't know that it is necessary...
This might be harder than you think. I investigated this for awhile but
decided it wasn't really worth the effort. Even if you do get a system
that can read to 0.0001" is it really going to be accurate? At that level
all kinds of things start to become an issue; flex in various places like
the column and table, play in the bearings of the encoder mechanism, even
thermal expansion.

So, bottom line, is there an advantage to having two DRO systems on a
single mill?
Depends on how long you want to run with just the DRO. If it's going to
be awhile before you switch to CNC then it might be worth the effort.

If I put on a digimatic scale system will I end up junking
it once I get my CNC stuff completed?
When you switch to CNC you will most likely be able to sell the DRO setup
for not much loss.

C|


Re: Vector CAD/CAM --- 180 degree turn

Marv Frankel
 

Dan,
Just got off the phone with my younger daughter, who pulled up your
link, and fell in love with the ring design. All she has to do is find a
husband, and we'll all be happy. Have you ever done an unusual Star of
David? Keep up the good work.

Marv Frankel
Los Angeles

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Statman" <dan.statman@...>
To: <CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@...>
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 7:07 PM
Subject: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Vector CAD/CAM --- 180 degree turn


I would like to publicly tell all of you about my 180 degree turn I have
taken with Vector. As some of you might remember, i was less than
over-joyed with the software last week.

I have since joined the Vector discussion group and obtained the latest
update to the software (for free from Fred). The Vector discussion board
is
monitored 24 hours a day by Fred and he responds IMMEDIATELY to all
questions. Having Fred available to show me how to use this software has
been a tremendous help. This software really is amazing in what it can
do.

Today's project was a carved titanium ring with the saying "Ani L'Dodi
V'Dodi Li" with Hebrew characters. This translates to "I am my beloved's
and my beloved is mine."

I downloaded a free Hebrew True Type font and installed it on my computer.
I started Vector, and with help from Fred, in 10 minutes time I had
completed G-Code for pocketing each letter in three passes to a depth of
0.020" with a 0.015" cutter. Dumped the raw G-Code into Microsoft Excel
to
convert it to rotary degrees and calculate the correct feedrates for each
point, and I cut the ring.

Total time invested 2.5 hours from conception to rough cut and anodized
ring. Pictures of the ring from four different angles can be seen at:

'Dodi-small.jpg

Thanks Fred, your support is overwhelming.

Daniel J. Statman, Statman Designs
www.statmandesigns.com
dan.statman@...


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Re: Re, AutoRout

Larry Edinger
 

Have you started to build it yet? I just got the Plans. He has a upgrade to
full Z-Axis Machine.

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Guenther" <j.guenther@...>
To: <CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@...>
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 8:50 PM
Subject: RE: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Re, AutoRout


I have the plans and have seen the finished machine a couple of years ago.

John Guenther
Sterling, Virginia

-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Edinger [mailto:ledinger@...]
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 23:39
To: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@...
Subject: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Re, AutoRout


Has anyone seen the Autorout by Diversi-tech inc. (David
Anthony)? Plans or finished ?




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polymer concrete

 

I think that this topic is drifting way off the lists topics and purpose.

thanks
bill
List Mom


stepper motor damper??

 

Hi group,

I just picked up a 12 watt nema 34 stepper motor.
It has a small boss on the shaft held with a grubscrew.
Loosley hanging on this is a washer with what appears to be a ferrite
magnet. I assume this is some type of damper. Can anyone comment on
this and is it worth keeping or should I discard it?

Regards

Bob Thomas


Re: Re, AutoRout

John Guenther
 

I have the plans and have seen the finished machine a couple of years ago.

John Guenther
Sterling, Virginia

-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Edinger [mailto:ledinger@...]
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 23:39
To: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@...
Subject: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Re, AutoRout


Has anyone seen the Autorout by Diversi-tech inc. (David
Anthony)? Plans or finished ?




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members are there, for OT subjects, that are not allowed on the CCED list.

NOTICE: ALL POSTINGS TO THIS GROUP BECOME PUBLIC DOMAIN BY
POSTING THEM. DON'T POST IF YOU CAN NOT ACCEPT THIS.....NO
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Re, AutoRout

Larry Edinger
 

Has anyone seen the Autorout by Diversi-tech inc. (David Anthony)? Plans or finished ?


Re: Newbie Questions

 

2) Judging by others' comments, it appears that one of the biggest
disadvantages to the little Mill/Drills is that you lose your position
when you move the head up and down. Has anyone done anything to address
this?
Two suggestions

1/ Try to plan your work so you don't have to move the head. Measure up
your various tools eg your R8 collet chuck, drill chuck etc so you know in
advance how much room you need to change from one to another. Then when
starting a job you can set the head just far enough above the work to
extract one tool holder and replace it with another.
Yeah, I've tried that.. Mostly my problem has been in drilling/taping
1/2"+ holes where if I have the head high enough to get my drill bit out
of the chuck, it is too high for my center drill. I guess I could buy
longer center drills but that doesn't really 'solve' the problem.

2/ Have a look in Model Engineers Workshop there have been a numbe of
articles on this. Quite a good suggestion was to bolt a laser pointer on the
mill head (Horizontal plane) and aim it at a wall some distance away. Draw a
vertical line on the wall. If the mill head is rotated when it is raised or
lowered then you can get it back into alignment by moving the head until the
laser spot is on the line again.
Now that is a very interesting and novel solution. I think I like that!
Is Model Engineers Workshop a magazine?

--C.S.


Re: CAM Software Options?

Alan Matheson
 

Have a look at CapsMill and at Powerstation 2002. I also got an evaluation
copy of TruboCADCam and gave up in disgust. I use TurboCAD v8 prof. as my
drawing package but couldn't get the the CAM part to work well.
Alan Matheson

----- Original Message -----
From: "natchamp_87" <mark@...>
To: <CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@...>
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 12:54 PM
Subject: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] CAM Software Options?


While I'm waiting to find the right machine for my cnc retrofit, I
thought I'd start playing around with the software. So far I have
download TurboCadCam which does both. I want to take a look at some
of the other CAM solutions available. Any recomendations where I can
download some eval copies? I am a beginner but kind of a an E-geek
anyways so ease of use, as well as functionality are important.

Mark
www.mark.hargett.com


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If you wish to post on unlimited OT subjects goto:
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you have trouble.


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sister site to the CCED group, as many of the same members are there, for OT
subjects, that are not allowed on the CCED list.

NOTICE: ALL POSTINGS TO THIS GROUP BECOME PUBLIC DOMAIN BY POSTING THEM.
DON'T POST IF YOU CAN NOT ACCEPT THIS.....NO EXCEPTIONS........
bill
List Mom
List Owner



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Re: Newbie Questions

Alan Matheson
 

2) Judging by others' comments, it appears that one of the biggest
disadvantages to the little Mill/Drills is that you lose your position
when you move the head up and down. Has anyone done anything to address
this?
Two suggestions

1/ Try to plan your work so you don't have to move the head. Measure up
your various tools eg your R8 collet chuck, drill chuck etc so you know in
advance how much room you need to change from one to another. Then when
starting a job you can set the head just far enough above the work to
extract one tool holder and replace it with another.

2/ Have a look in Model Engineers Workshop there have been a numbe of
articles on this. Quite a good suggestion was to bolt a laser pointer on the
mill head (Horizontal plane) and aim it at a wall some distance away. Draw a
vertical line on the wall. If the mill head is rotated when it is raised or
lowered then you can get it back into alignment by moving the head until the
laser spot is on the line again.

Alan Matheson


Re: Newbie Questions

 

In a message dated 10/21/2002 9:02:26 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
cs@... writes:


I guess I could buy
longer center drills but that doesn't really 'solve' the problem.
The option that I took was to buy screw machine drills, they are much shorter
and will work except when the hole has to be really deep. The 1/2 inch bit
is about 3.9 OAL, the number and letter drills are shorter than the 1/2 is.
I bought all three sets in one box. Saves a lot of Z axis cranking.
bill
CCED


Re: Newbie Questions

 

In a message dated 10/21/2002 9:02:26 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
cs@... writes:


Is Model Engineers Workshop a magazine?
Yes it is and I like it the best of all, but it is only aimed at making tools
etc for the workshop, no models or club stuff. It is available in the US
thru:
wiseowl@...
There are some back issues available, but it took me over two years to get
all of them and went all over the world to do so.


3ft x 1/2" x 10 TPI Steel Lead/Acme Screws For Sale on eBay.

Lloyd Leung
 

For sale on eBay:

NEW 3ft x 1/2" x 10 TPI Steel Lead/Acme Rod and Nut



<>




eBay Item: 1779890344



I've got 7 or 8 of them.



Please contact me off list via eBay's "ask seller a question", or my
email attached to this message.





Cheers.



Lloyd

Email: (Lloyd at Leung.net)


Re: Questions to make a CNC Router

 

Have a friend that has a plasma table that is direct drive to the spur
gear for the rack and it seems to work just fine.

No reason all the motors have to match. Of course that upsets some of
our sense of balance, but the machine does not care.

Tim
[Denver, CO]

-----Original Message-----
Questions to make a CNC Router

Is it OK to drive the rack and spur gears, just with
the motor without an
belt reduction?
Does the motor from the Z axis must be the same size
as X,Y?
Raul


Vector CAD/CAM --- 180 degree turn

Dan Statman
 

I would like to publicly tell all of you about my 180 degree turn I have
taken with Vector. As some of you might remember, i was less than
over-joyed with the software last week.

I have since joined the Vector discussion group and obtained the latest
update to the software (for free from Fred). The Vector discussion board is
monitored 24 hours a day by Fred and he responds IMMEDIATELY to all
questions. Having Fred available to show me how to use this software has
been a tremendous help. This software really is amazing in what it can do.

Today's project was a carved titanium ring with the saying "Ani L'Dodi
V'Dodi Li" with Hebrew characters. This translates to "I am my beloved's
and my beloved is mine."

I downloaded a free Hebrew True Type font and installed it on my computer.
I started Vector, and with help from Fred, in 10 minutes time I had
completed G-Code for pocketing each letter in three passes to a depth of
0.020" with a 0.015" cutter. Dumped the raw G-Code into Microsoft Excel to
convert it to rotary degrees and calculate the correct feedrates for each
point, and I cut the ring.

Total time invested 2.5 hours from conception to rough cut and anodized
ring. Pictures of the ring from four different angles can be seen at:

'Dodi-small.jpg

Thanks Fred, your support is overwhelming.

Daniel J. Statman, Statman Designs
www.statmandesigns.com
dan.statman@...


Re: polymer concrete

Doug Harrison
 

Some "experts" claim that machine bases must be cast with quartz fill
whereas others say granite is the only choice. The one thing nearly all
agree on is that the resin content should be between 5-10% of the total
mass.

Now for a caveat. The vast research done by Philly and a few others is not
without merit. Those who build ruling engines and diamond turning machines
benefit from this knowledge base. It's just not applicable to a hobby
machine with rolled ballscrews and ABEC1 bearings. Spectral and thermal
response of the base is the least of problems here.

Start with a true 100% solids epoxy and add your choice of moisture free
stone fill. Again, some claim fine powder is best and others say a variety
of powder and agregate sizes should be used.

At $50 a gallon (10.5 pounds) for epoxy you get up to 200 pounds of casting
mix. With filler you should have about thirty cents a pound in the mix.
That's about the price of steel.

Doug


Re: Questions to make a CNC Router

 

Ron,
The Entec High speed winding machines used a 90 degree
gear box to reduce the rpm on the rack & gear drive
systems. Typically the drive on the carrage (axis 2)
and the cross (axis 3) were both a rack drive. I can't
remember the speeds any more but I can say that they
were fast.
Bill Higdon

Raul,

All of the commerical machines that I have seen use either a belt or a gear
box.

You will need about a 10 to 1 reduction..

Bob Campbell

----- Original Message -----
From: "Raul Lara" <ralaco@...>
To: <CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@...>
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 6:06 PM
Subject: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Questions to make a CNC Router


Questions to make a CNC Router

Is it OK to drive the rack and spur gears, just with
the motor without an
belt reduction?
Does the motor from the Z axis must be the same size
as X,Y?
Raul

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site


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OFF Topic POSTS: General Machining
If you wish to post on unlimited OT subjects goto:
aol://5863:126/rec.crafts.metalworking or go thru Google.com to reach it if
you have trouble.


I consider this to be a
sister site to the CCED group, as many of the same members are there, for OT
subjects, that are not allowed on the CCED list.

NOTICE: ALL POSTINGS TO THIS GROUP BECOME PUBLIC DOMAIN BY POSTING THEM.
DON'T POST IF YOU CAN NOT ACCEPT THIS.....NO EXCEPTIONS........
bill
List Mom
List Owner



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to

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OFF Topic POSTS: General Machining
If you wish to post on unlimited OT subjects goto:
aol://5863:126/rec.crafts.metalworking or go thru Google.com to reach it if you
have trouble.


I consider this to be a sister
site to the CCED group, as many of the same members are there, for OT subjects,
that are not allowed on the CCED list.

NOTICE: ALL POSTINGS TO THIS GROUP BECOME PUBLIC DOMAIN BY POSTING THEM. DON'T > POST IF YOU CAN NOT ACCEPT THIS.....NO EXCEPTIONS........
bill
List Mom
List Owner



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to


Re: Questions to make a CNC Router

Robert Campbell
 

Raul,

All of the commerical machines that I have seen use either a belt or a gear
box.

You will need about a 10 to 1 reduction..

Bob Campbell

----- Original Message -----
From: "Raul Lara" <ralaco@...>
To: <CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@...>
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 6:06 PM
Subject: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Questions to make a CNC Router


Questions to make a CNC Router

Is it OK to drive the rack and spur gears, just with
the motor without an
belt reduction?
Does the motor from the Z axis must be the same size
as X,Y?
Raul

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site


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URL to this group:

OFF Topic POSTS: General Machining
If you wish to post on unlimited OT subjects goto:
aol://5863:126/rec.crafts.metalworking or go thru Google.com to reach it if
you have trouble.


I consider this to be a
sister site to the CCED group, as many of the same members are there, for OT
subjects, that are not allowed on the CCED list.

NOTICE: ALL POSTINGS TO THIS GROUP BECOME PUBLIC DOMAIN BY POSTING THEM.
DON'T POST IF YOU CAN NOT ACCEPT THIS.....NO EXCEPTIONS........
bill
List Mom
List Owner



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Re: CNC drill sharpening

Steve
 

From: "turbulatordude" <davemucha@...>

You can save a dollar or two if you use coblat and another 50 cents
if you use HSS, but why ?? at $47.50 for HSS or $48.00 for Cobalt or
$50.00 for carbide.
It all depends on what you are cutting. For hard or even semi hard
metals and woods Carbide and Ceramics are great. For softer things Carbide
just doesn't take and hold the edge that Cobalt or HHS does. For many
plastics, HHS will cut better and last longer then the others. On the other
hand I've worked with a few plastics that will even eat up Ceramics....