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Re: CPNC and Patents
In a message dated 05/08/2000 3:37:44 AM Hawaiian Standard Time,
tbarnard@... writes: << A patent is a legal right to sue ! TAB >> Only while the Patent is in force. I think the maximum now is 20 years from date of filing or 17 years after issue, which ever is shorter. Peter THRD, Inc. |
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Re: CPNC
Ray Henry
The only thing that bothers me is a brief note in response to to a question
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in the Simple Step pdf. It's on the next to last page and is their FAQ. -quote- Q. How far can I move if your board can only step 65,534 steps total travel? A. If you have a mechanism connected to the motor that allowed you to move the unit 0.001 inches per step, you could travel 65.534 inches (5.4612 feet) total travel. Another example would be a mechanism that had an 0.01 inch per step resolution which would allow you to move 655.34 inches (54.612 feet). -end- Now if you wanted 0.0001 increments, which is often talked about here, would you be limited to 6.5534 inches total travel per axis? Sounds like it from their answer. If you went with 0.0005 then ~ 13 isn't so bad. Ray Message: 11 [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Digest Number 483 |
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Re: Some pictures of a retrofit
I notice that those stepper motors were 150 ox in motors. I would suggest
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300 oz inches would be better. I put those (300) on my retrofit and they worked very well. One other thing you may want to do is the replace the X-Y leadscrews with ballscrews. On my mill drill I found the original acme lead screws had a pitch error of .001 per in and .02 back lash. With ballscrews I have <.002 and the pitch is right on. I also solved the mill drill quill backlash problem (.02) by modifying the pinion shaft and making some simple eccentric bushing for the pinion shaft. I have a write up on it somewhere. It was easier than adding ballscrews to drive the quill. Dan -----Original Message-----
From: Rich <ibrich2000@...> To: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO <CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@...> Date: Sunday, May 07, 2000 4:12 PM Subject: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Some pictures of a retrofit discussion of shop built systems, for CAD, CAM, EDM, and DRO.
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Re: CPNC and Patents
Tim Barnard
You are correct. If the patent holder wishes, they could shut down everyone
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you mentioned plus many more companies. It just depends if the patent holder knows that the other companies exist and if they are taking sales away from the patent holder's company. They also must look to see which company has more cash. You can go out of business trying to protect your patent. A patent is a legal right to sue ! TAB -----Original Message-----
From: John Guenther [mailto:jguenther@...] Sent: Monday, May 08, 2000 5:14 AM To: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@... Subject: RE: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Re: CPNC and Patents I have been following this thread this morning and have a real problem with all this patent stuff. Sure people have a right to protect their designs but if you come up with a new way to build your widget in the current climate you might as well keep it to yourself. There is nothing new in the world, only new ways to use existing technology. If you take this seriously then any form of machine control not manufactured or sold by one of the patent holding corporations should be pulled of the market. THAT'S A BUNCH OF BULL!! What I am hearing is that our patent laws and the corresponding legal system are only designed to prevent new development and invention, not promote it. I guess Dan Mauch should go out of business, Tom Kulga should not have developed his DRO board and none of the low cost CNC solutions should exit. In fact from what you have all been saying NIST should stop the EMC project because that too violates some patent somewhere. Here we are, one of the greatest nations in the world but we can't develop anything new because of the damn lawyers!! Ok, I am off my soap box for now. John Guenther -----Original Message----- From: Brian Bartholomew [mailto:bb@...] Sent: Monday, May 08, 2000 7:23 AM To: cad_cam_edm_dro@... Subject: Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Re: CPNC and Patents > For what I could find out, it cost around $200,000 to fight > Hurco. About half of what Hurco wanted to settle out of court. Wow, that's cheap. Panels on IP law appear from time to time at computer conferences, and the minimum price they report for an innocent company to either defend their patent, or defend themselves against an illegitimate patent, is "most of a million dollars". Do you know if Haas recovered the $200K from Hurco? Brian ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Welcome to CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@...,an unmoderated list for the discussion of shop built systems, for CAD, CAM, EDM, and DRO. Addresses: Post message: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@... Subscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-subscribe@... Unsubscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-unsubscribe@... List owner: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-owner@..., wanliker@... Moderator: jmelson@... [Moderator] URL to this page: FAQ: bill, List Manager ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your money connected @ OnMoney.com - the first Web site that lets you see and manage all of your finances all in one place. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Welcome to CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@...,an unmoderated list for the discussion of shop built systems, for CAD, CAM, EDM, and DRO. Addresses: Post message: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@... Subscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-subscribe@... Unsubscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-unsubscribe@... List owner: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-owner@..., wanliker@... Moderator: jmelson@... [Moderator] URL to this page: FAQ: bill, List Manager |
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Re: CPNC and Patents
Tim Barnard
As far as I know they did not. Please remember that Haas is in court all the
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time for one thing or another. They have a law firm on retainer to handle these type of problems. If it had been a one time deal then the cost would be more toward $500,000. TAB -----Original Message-----
From: Brian Bartholomew [mailto:bb@...] Sent: Monday, May 08, 2000 4:23 AM To: cad_cam_edm_dro@... Subject: Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Re: CPNC and Patents For what I could find out, it cost around $200,000 to fightWow, that's cheap. Panels on IP law appear from time to time at computer conferences, and the minimum price they report for an innocent company to either defend their patent, or defend themselves against an illegitimate patent, is "most of a million dollars". Do you know if Haas recovered the $200K from Hurco? Brian ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your money connected @ OnMoney.com - the first Web site that lets you see and manage all of your finances all in one place. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Welcome to CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@...,an unmoderated list for the discussion of shop built systems, for CAD, CAM, EDM, and DRO. Addresses: Post message: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@... Subscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-subscribe@... Unsubscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-unsubscribe@... List owner: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-owner@..., wanliker@... Moderator: jmelson@... [Moderator] URL to this page: FAQ: bill, List Manager |
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Re: Digest Number 482
Andrew Werby
Re: PROJECTS STILL ON THE BURNER?
It now appears I can get my Beast (the 1984 Leadwell-Ramco) of a milling machine to accept drip-feed input through its RS-232 port. I tracked down the people who made the old Centurion IV control (they are called Milltronics now, and are located in the Minneapolis area) , called the number (952-442-1410) and talked to "the old guy in the back". He assured me that if I could be happy with a 1200 baud rate, could come up with some kind of "BTR" (Behind The Reader?) box and appropriate shielded cables, and found a control program that could output my G-code as step and direction through the serial port of my computer, using Microsoft's built-in Hyperterminal or some other null modem connection, then I'd be in biz- able to feed it unlimited-size files in DNC mode. This sounds distinctly doable (much more so than the Brain Transplant), but I've got some questions for the experts here: What control program should I use to communicate with this old DC servo-equipped mill? Is this a good excuse to try CNC Pro, or would something else be better? Is the DOS port of EMC really ready and for sale someplace? I think this would go fast enough on my P223, in DOS mode- wouldn't the low baud rate be the limiting factor? How many inches per min. should I expect, in contouring mode? Do I really need some special BTR box, or can I go direct from the 9-pin serial port of my computer? Does this machine need its code fed in some special way, which the BTR translates from standard step-and-direction? If I do need one, which is the most cost-effective (for an non-electronician)? What about the "software handshaking" it uses: x-on x-off? How does that work? Is this just a series of characters I need to insert at the beginning of each program, (and if so, how do I find out what they are?) . I was thinking of Predator cables- anybody had any experiences with them? Predator also had a $700 control program (with cut previewing and other nice features) - anybody tried it? I'm sure I'll have more questions as I go along... Andrew Werby Andrew Werby - United Artworks Sculpture, Jewelry, and Other Art Stuff |
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Re: CPNC and Patents
John Guenther
I have been following this thread this morning and have a real problem with
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all this patent stuff. Sure people have a right to protect their designs but if you come up with a new way to build your widget in the current climate you might as well keep it to yourself. There is nothing new in the world, only new ways to use existing technology. If you take this seriously then any form of machine control not manufactured or sold by one of the patent holding corporations should be pulled of the market. THAT'S A BUNCH OF BULL!! What I am hearing is that our patent laws and the corresponding legal system are only designed to prevent new development and invention, not promote it. I guess Dan Mauch should go out of business, Tom Kulga should not have developed his DRO board and none of the low cost CNC solutions should exit. In fact from what you have all been saying NIST should stop the EMC project because that too violates some patent somewhere. Here we are, one of the greatest nations in the world but we can't develop anything new because of the damn lawyers!! Ok, I am off my soap box for now. John Guenther -----Original Message-----
From: Brian Bartholomew [mailto:bb@...] Sent: Monday, May 08, 2000 7:23 AM To: cad_cam_edm_dro@... Subject: Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Re: CPNC and Patents > For what I could find out, it cost around $200,000 to fight > Hurco. About half of what Hurco wanted to settle out of court. Wow, that's cheap. Panels on IP law appear from time to time at computer conferences, and the minimum price they report for an innocent company to either defend their patent, or defend themselves against an illegitimate patent, is "most of a million dollars". Do you know if Haas recovered the $200K from Hurco? Brian ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Welcome to CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@...,an unmoderated list for the discussion of shop built systems, for CAD, CAM, EDM, and DRO. Addresses: Post message: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@... Subscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-subscribe@... Unsubscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-unsubscribe@... List owner: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-owner@..., wanliker@... Moderator: jmelson@... [Moderator] URL to this page: FAQ: bill, List Manager |
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Re: CPNC and Patents
Brian Bartholomew
For what I could find out, it cost around $200,000 to fightWow, that's cheap. Panels on IP law appear from time to time at computer conferences, and the minimum price they report for an innocent company to either defend their patent, or defend themselves against an illegitimate patent, is "most of a million dollars". Do you know if Haas recovered the $200K from Hurco? Brian |
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Re: CPNC and Patents
Tim Barnard
For what I could find out, it cost around $200,000 to fight Hurco. About
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half of what Hurco wanted to settle out of court. TAB -----Original Message----- |
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Re: CPNC and Patents
Tim Barnard
Most companies figured it was less costly to pay Hurco than to fight them in
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court. Gene Haas had a different opinion. TAB -----Original Message----- |
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Re: CPNC and Patents
Tim Barnard
The judge said that Hurco's patents were based on PC technology that was
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available at the time the were formulated. Since Hurco did not revise their patents to keep up with the changes in the technology, they were null and void. TAB -----Original Message----- |
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Re: CPNC and Patents
Brian Bartholomew
It makes claims almost as outrageous as Hurco, implying a vastWhat conspiracy? It's front and center in the USPTO's press releases. The USPTO has been reorganized to run as a business. Its tax funding has been reduced to only partially cover its budget, and a profit motive established to encourage serving its customers. The USPTO views its customers as the patent applicants who pay them filing fees, not the general public concerned with the progress of science and the useful arts. ----- [...] The PTO has evolved into a unique government agency. Since 1991-- under the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act (OBRA) of 1990-- the PTO has operated in much the same way as a private business, providing valued products and services to our customers in exchange for fees which are used to fully fund our operations. The primary services we provide include processing patents and trademarks and disseminating patent and trademark information. [...] ----- [...] Performance The mission of the patent business area is to help our customers get patents; its performance goal is to grant patents to inventors for their discoveries. These were established to help us direct our efforts toward providing our customers with high-quality service, one of the PTO's two strategic goals. [...] ----- PRESS RELEASE #00-21 CONTACT: Richard Maulsby March 29, 2000 Maria Victoria Hernandez 703-305-8341 PTO BECOMES PERFORMANCE-BASED ORGANIZATION Today, the Patent and Trademark Office (PTO) becomes the United States Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO), a Performance-Based Organization (PBO). The new status results from the American Inventors Protection Act of 1999, which reformed the U.S. patent system in a number of ways. The PBO is a concept created in March 1996 by Vice President Al Gore and the National Partnership for Reinventing Government. In fact, the USPTO will now be only the second federal agency in history to be a PBO, after the Education Department's Office of Student Financial Assistance. A PBO is a results-driven organization that delivers the best possible services to its customers. A PBO also commits to accountability for results by having clear objectives, specific measurable goals, customer service standards and targets for improved performance. In exchange for this commitment to accountability, a PBO is granted managerial flexibilities to achieve these goals and operate more like a business with greater autonomy over its budget, hiring, and procurement. The USPTO's new status will be celebrated this Monday, April 3, 2000, at a ceremony in front of the main headquarters building at 2121 Crystal Drive, Arlington, Va. The program will begin at 10:30 a.m. "As a PBO, the United States Patent and Trademark Office moves to the forefront of reinventing the federal government by becoming a results-driven organization with a renewed focus on customer service," says Q. Todd Dickinson, Assistant Secretary of Commerce and Commissioner of Patents and Trademarks. "Having sufficient resources to operate effectively in this new environment," he continued, "is now more important than ever." # # # |
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Re: CPNC and Patents
Jon Elson
Ron Ginger wrote:
I have read the notes about patent issues and am now concerned. I knowApparently, Haas didn't pay, and has been vindicated in court. I don't know whether it was determined that the Haas product doesn't infringe, or that the Hurco patents were overly broad, which sounds awully likely. But, that doesn't mean that the court made that determination. Jon |
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Re: CPNC and Patents
Matt Shaver
From: Ron Ginger <ginger@...>From what I can tell, no. 1. Read this: 2. If you like, put my name in the README as the person to contact regarding patent infringement issues and then Hurco/IMS can sue me if they like. a. I'm basically poor (the "no blood from a turnip" defense). b. Once you read #1 above, you'll see why I think this is a dead issue. c. IP law exists to promote invention, not squelch it. I want to see this program developed to benefit the user community. 3. I want to help plan/organize/write this program, I'll try to post some relevant stuff soon. Matt |
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Re: CPNC and Patents
Brian Bartholomew
I have read the notes about patent issues and am now concerned. INearly all of the patents in the software field are crazy, and whether you'll be prosecuted depends on how much money you have to take. Non-profit groups who don't challenge the powerful have historically been mostly ignored. For further analysis, see . Brian |
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Re: Grizzly products
Larry Edington
In that case, the Griz is a great mini mill for small parts. It's so much
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better than a Sherline or Taig, it's amazing. Real steel construction! I've got a PC with my CNC control software sitting beside my mill, and the steppers / drivers beside that. A large piece of aluminum on my table saw ready to cut up for the motor mounting brackets. Then it'll be CNC'd. later, Larry E. -----Original Message-----
From: James Cullins [mailto:jcullins@...] Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 8:04 PM To: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@... Subject: Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Grizzly products Larry I am actually building the PCB mill a lot like you suggested. The mini was for machining small parts. In fact you are the one who got me started. I'm on the PIC list as well. I am waiting for the motors and linear bearings to come in. Thanks Larry Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: Larry Edington <larrye@...> To: <CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@...> Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 7:44 PM Subject: RE: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Grizzly products > I've got the mini mill and think it's great. Easy enough to CNC. > > I also do a lot of PC board routing. But I wouldn't use a mini mill for > that. Not enough work area. > > A better option for PC boards would be a simple 3 axis router made with MDF, > bronze bushings, shafting and lead screws. You could even make it with > drawer slides. > > If you do use a mill, you'll need either a sheet of MDF or a sheet of > aluminum to use for the PC board > work surface. Double sided tape works but the best option is a vacuum hold > down table made from two sheets of MDF. > > Hook up a shop vac and the blank will be held down firmly and flat. > > Larry E. > > -----Original Message----- > From: James Cullins [mailto:jcullins@...] > Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 7:35 PM > To: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO > Subject: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Grizzly products > > > What does the list think of the Grizzly > G4031 mini lath ? > > > G8689 mini mill? > > > Are these machines adaptable to CNC control? > This is for a beginner I want to learn how to do my own > machine work ( hobby ). It seams like every project I get involved > with I need to go to someone else to machine something or cut the > holes for mounting parts. > I am building a small mill for PCBs. > Thanks > Jim Cullins. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > Welcome to CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@...,an unmoderated list for the > discussion of shop built systems, for CAD, CAM, EDM, and DRO. > > Addresses: > Post message: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@... > Subscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-subscribe@... > Unsubscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-unsubscribe@... > List owner: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-owner@..., wanliker@... > Moderator: jmelson@... [Moderator] > URL to this page: > FAQ: > bill, > List Manager > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get your money connected @ OnMoney.com - the first Web site that lets > you see and manage all of your finances all in one place. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Welcome to CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@...,an unmoderated list for the discussion of shop built systems, for CAD, CAM, EDM, and DRO. > > Addresses: > Post message: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@... > Subscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-subscribe@... > Unsubscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-unsubscribe@... > List owner: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-owner@..., wanliker@... > Moderator: jmelson@... [Moderator] > URL to this page: > FAQ: > bill, > List Manager > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Welcome to CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@...,an unmoderated list for the discussion of shop built systems, for CAD, CAM, EDM, and DRO. Addresses: Post message: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@... Subscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-subscribe@... Unsubscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-unsubscribe@... List owner: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-owner@..., wanliker@... Moderator: jmelson@... [Moderator] URL to this page: FAQ: bill, List Manager |
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Re: CPNC
Ron Ginger
Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 06:57:59 -0400 Ron, Take a look at for the intelligent driver boardsthanks for the note, I pulled the docs on Friday and read them over. It does indeed sound like a fine way to run steppers under windows. I think I may order one and try to modify my current VB program to drive them. The only tricky part is getting the timeing right to cause the motors to do a ramp move. The SSXYZ board does say it uses a common clock so all motors will keep together within a few microseconds, but it looks like you hve to calculate the time for each axis first. Ive sent a message to them for clarificaiton. A 2 amp board for 3 axis is about $350. This beats FlashCut by a good deal. And thy have a big 6.5 amp board for aout $400. Looks like some good stuff. ron |
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