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List members,
Dan Mauch has come through with Hans W's tachometer. There has been some
other pretty neat stuff coming out, esp. on the software end. There were
quite a few other little hardware and software projects that I figure must be
simmering or have died along the way. Perhaps some of these projects are
alive and well but have not been given the recognition they deserve. Just to
give them a boost of energy, perhaps they could be recalled and status on
them reported? There are quite a few that I would like to buy or see if they
come to fruition. How do others feel? Maybe I missed them when posts were
made....

EMC stepper system with encoder feedback.
CNC Pro break out board.
pre-configured Linux box.
lower cost STG replacement card.
group purchase of linear encoder gratings.
etc.,

I have followed Dan Falck's Rf-45 project with interest as I had bought one
also. Though mine is still on the shelf, seeing his inspires me to at least
"arm chair" work on it....

No flames please.

Peter Tsukamoto
THRD, Inc.

Your absolutely right.

ptengin@... wrote:

Look at year!

ptengin@... wrote:

Tim Barnard:

Hi Tim what's up with your date? Are you talking to us from the future?

Derek

In a message dated 5/4/0 3:15:05 PM, wbbengtsson@... writes:

<< Assuming equal proficiency with a drawing board and a CAD system, is there
any type of drawing that is suited to the manual process, as opposed to the
CAD process? >>

drawing a straight line, more or less of an undetermined length. Have it
done before the computer boots.
grin,
bill

Ron, I like all those idea's.

Steve

----------
From: Ron Ginger <ginger@...>
To: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@...
Subject: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Re: CPNC
Date: Friday, May 05, 2000 7:20 AM

Ok, I have stirred up a real hornets nest with this one. Lots of good
comments, but lets try to move on.

1) There is a class of work for which a good CPNC program is the best
answer. There is also a large class of work for which a CAD/CAM approach
is the best answer. I own over 20 hammers, and every time Ive tried to
use the wrong one for a job I mash my finger or spoil the work. Computer
Programs are tools, and Ive got a lot of them. No one can ever have to
many tools.

2) I aim to build a very good CPNC program. I have looked at AcuRite and
it has lots of good features, but I dont want to spend $13k for them. I
have a good start at a program in VB, but the limits imposed by windows,
and some early design choices I made, make it hard to expand.

3) I intend to develop CPNC in Tcl/Tk which will allow it to run on
Windows, Mac and Unix/linux. The motor driver code will be carefully
contained so that a specific module can be written to drive INDEXER.LPT,
FlashCut(if they open the spec), EMC, PicServo, etc.

4) I will create a web site to hold all the CPNC stuff. This list will
get perodic posts when interesting new levels are reached, but we will
not do the complete exchange of design and code on this list. I hope to
have the web site up in a week or so, I'll post here when its ready.

5) Anyone interested in doing part of the code please contact me. I will
try to coordinate so all bases are covered, and no needless duplication.

6) I will post a 'product requirements' document here next week for
comment. Not to debate if CPNC is a good thing, but to refine what CPNC
will do.

ron


Welcome to CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@...,an unmoderated list for the
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Heck,
He'd make more money from a time machine than a small cnc machine huh? ;)

Peter
THRD, Inc.

In a message dated 05/05/2000 2:33:14 PM Hawaiian Standard Time,
hightechsystems@... writes:

<< Are you talking to us from the future?

Derek >>

If he's over the date line, as in Australia or Japan, I guess he would be
talking to us from the future....

Peter
THRD, Inc.

Jon Elson wrote:

My guess is the Newall guy WAS either a machinist or machine
programmer, while the AcuRite guys (Two of them, no less!) were
salesmen with little real understanding of what they were doing.

Pretty close, I'd say. Still, even after the AcuRite guys knew what they
were doing, the Newall system was still faster, requiring fewer inputs.
The one thing I learned from this is, no matter how impressive the demo,
(which are always well tuned routines) always give the salesman a
real-world sample that is representative of your average work.

Jon

For both personal and very limited work use (once a month) ,
I'd like to have a CMM, but due to cost it is not feasible to have
a "real" CMM
(Coordinate Measuring Machine)
So has anyone built one that would be fairly accurate in the .001"
to .0005" range.
My parts are normally in the envelope of no bigger than 18" x 18" x
18".
I'm also in the planning stages of building a 4-axis DRO on my 3-in-1
using the board kit from Camtronics, so if I could some how use the
same computer and
modified software that would be great. Am I asking for too much ?



Thanks,
Mike Mueller
Antioch, CA

Jon Anderson wrote:

Jon Elson wrote:

Yup, I had the local dealer for AccuRite out to show me their

system.

The CPNC was VERY impressive, I was very excited, until I heard
their price.

That's not bad for commercial stuff. I was dazzled by a demo, until I
threw a real-world example at them. Machine a rectangular O-ring
groove
.140 wide with a .125 end mill and cleanup passes on both sides.
Took the two sales guys over half an hour!
Newall was next, sales guy said "no problem" and had it done in 5
minutes, including a blow-by-blow description of what he was doing.

My guess is the Newall guy WAS either a machinist or machine programmer,
while the
AcuRite guys (Two of them, no less!) were salesmen with little real
understanding of what
they were doing.

Jon

Hello all:

I've got a MaxNC 15 that was upgraded to the SRV-S.

It has the encoders on the end of the bigger steppermotors and the
limit switches on each axis.

I had the thing running for a short while on a very simple program to
basically spot face .005" deep into aluminum at 5 locations, and we
only need to do this maybe 5 times a day. This is all this machine
will ever do.

Then the thing stopped, checked it out and the main chip on the X-Y
LPT card was kinda melted.

MaxNC graciously replaced the card, but now I cannot get the thing to
work.

The computer was changed since it was felt that the old P90 was much
too slow, now its like a 400 or something. It has an AMI BIOS VERSION
1.00.02.BS0, and this is the one that has an integral LPT1 built into
the motherboard, however its been disabled so the two MaxNC LPT cards
are used to drive the minimill.

The power box was back of the mill was sent back into MaxNC for them
to look at and they sent it back saying it was fixed.

I'm still getting "servo overload" when I push the "h" key to home it.

Further, turning the lead screws by hand doesn't update the DRO on
the PC screen.

Reading all the messages on the board here, seems like you're all
doing pretty well, any and all comments, help would be really
appreciated, this is causing me a lot of grief out in the shop.

Thanks,

Mark

Tim,

I just found out last month that Newall dropped it due to problems
dealing with Hurco. It is a shame, as that ease of use in a full 3 axis
package would have been killer. Seeing it run on a laptop, I showed him
my dad's Sherline running Ahha and inquired about using it to drive a
stepper system. He asked about the potential market for a software only
package for the hobby/low end market and I told him I thought it could
be significant if priced right. Apparently Hurco had little interest in
modifying the program towards this end, and selling it cheap.

Jon

Tim Barnard wrote:

Southwestern Industries has a 2 1/2 D cnc system including ballscrews
for $7995.00.

I'm looking very hard at this system. Add $500 for a Z scale, $150 for
remote cycle start, and $100 for offline programming, it's still well
under anything else commercial on the market. It will accept a modified
Fanuc 6 code also. (hope Vector has this, or it's available!)
It's nowhere as usefull as a full 3 axis system, but it's still far
better than hand cranking, can be user installed in a day or two, and
if trends continue I could have one paid for in 4 months.

Jon

Ok, I have stirred up a real hornets nest with this one. Lots of good
comments, but lets try to move on.

1) There is a class of work for which a good CPNC program is the best
answer. There is also a large class of work for which a CAD/CAM approach
is the best answer. I own over 20 hammers, and every time Ive tried to
use the wrong one for a job I mash my finger or spoil the work. Computer
Programs are tools, and Ive got a lot of them. No one can ever have to
many tools.

2) I aim to build a very good CPNC program. I have looked at AcuRite and
it has lots of good features, but I dont want to spend $13k for them. I
have a good start at a program in VB, but the limits imposed by windows,
and some early design choices I made, make it hard to expand.

3) I intend to develop CPNC in Tcl/Tk which will allow it to run on
Windows, Mac and Unix/linux. The motor driver code will be carefully
contained so that a specific module can be written to drive INDEXER.LPT,
FlashCut(if they open the spec), EMC, PicServo, etc.

4) I will create a web site to hold all the CPNC stuff. This list will
get perodic posts when interesting new levels are reached, but we will
not do the complete exchange of design and code on this list. I hope to
have the web site up in a week or so, I'll post here when its ready.

5) Anyone interested in doing part of the code please contact me. I will
try to coordinate so all bases are covered, and no needless duplication.

6) I will post a 'product requirements' document here next week for
comment. Not to debate if CPNC is a good thing, but to refine what CPNC
will do.

ron

In a message dated 05/05/2000 7:33:29 AM Hawaiian Standard Time,
mmueller@... writes:

<< So has anyone built one that would be fairly accurate in the .001"
to .0005" range.
My parts are normally in the envelope of no bigger than 18" x 18" x
18". >>

Ironically, Your CMM and a gantry mill big enough to do a 18 inch cube would
have to be very massive and rigid to hold .0005". I think a more realistic
range would be +- .002. I have tried to probe on a 3 axis DRO equipped
Bridgeport. Not really good for more than a few dozen hits. Talk about
cranking. The neatest system I've used is a Renishaw probe used as a joy
stick. By grabbing the probe, one drags the stylus over the part. The cnc
floats the gantry over the part as though you were moving a manual machine.
Of course, it is recording position info as you go. If this system could be
duplicated in a lower (much lower) cost version, you could build a medium
duty gantry mill / CMM combo machine. Kill two birds with one stone.

Just a thought.

Peter
THRD, Inc.

Jon Elson wrote:

Yup, I had the local dealer for AccuRite out to show me their system.
The CPNC was VERY impressive, I was very excited, until I heard
their price.

That's not bad for commercial stuff. I was dazzled by a demo, until I
threw a real-world example at them. Machine a rectangular O-ring groove
.140 wide with a .125 end mill and cleanup passes on both sides.
Took the two sales guys over half an hour!
Newall was next, sales guy said "no problem" and had it done in 5
minutes, including a blow-by-blow description of what he was doing.

Jon

Ron,

Take a look at for the intelligent driver boards
they offer. These look like they might be what you are looking for and
could be an alternative to FlashCut if they don't want to play in the CPNC
arena. I downloaded the software and manuals. The software is ok, but is
not what I would want in CPNC. The manuals, however, do provide information
on the command language and descriptions of all of the available commands.
The boards are smart and appear to handle the necessary step and direction
processing along with monitoring the home and limit switches. They can also
be used with an available QE board to provide position information from some
HEDS encoders. There appears to be a download for a set of communications
dll's written in Borland c++. If you download one of the manuals for a
board, such as the ssxyz manual for the 3 axis board you should have all the
info that would be needed to adapt your software to these boards.

I have NO connection with SimpleStep, I don't even own their product but I
am really interested in CPNC for a home shop.

John Guenther

Hello All,
I have controlled (a) motor directly with the joystick buttons, but that was it. Plan was to build a completely jog run machine with
some MDI and sub storage.
We played around with using a keyboard w/mouse cannibalized for this. Worked well in the planning, but it was for a particular
machine. We only needed certain CAPPED letters, numeric, arrow keys to decern off the matrix. the membrane is use laminate layers
with disk switches and the label was desk jet template material. Sorry no knobs to grab or handles to turn. The jog section was
revised to be replaceable as it wore out kinda quick.
Robert Ash

From: Tim Barnard <tbarnard@...>
I understand each company that paid Hurco wrote a check for at least
$400,000 each. Then Haas goes and fights Hurco and wins ! They only paid
lawyer and court cost. About 1/3rd the cost.

Thank goodness! I thought I'd never be able to sleep again...

From:


"Major Patent Case Won

We recently won an important patent infringement case in the United States
District Court for the Eastern District of Virginia. On October 2, 1998, the
Court entered a summary judgment of noninfringement in favor of our client,
Haas Automation, Inc., a leading manufacturer of CNC (computer numerically
controlled) machine tools. Ted Pianko and Art Hasan led the team of lawyers,
paralegals, and support staff that worked on securing this significant
victory for Haas.

The plaintiff in the case was IMS Technology, Inc., a Virginia "shell"
corporation created by its parent, machine tool manufacturer Hurco Companies,
Inc. Hurco formed IMS in Virginia in order to enforce one of its patents
against Haas and other CNC machine tool manufacturers, and to take advantage
of the fast-paced "rocket docket" of the Eastern District of Virginia federal
court.

The patent asserted against Haas has claims to an apparatus and method of
programming a CNC machine tool in a question-and-answer format, as well as an
apparatus for manually adjusting the speed at which a CNC machine tool
operates, known as a "feed rate override." A host of U.S. and foreign machine
tool makers had previously taken licenses to settle actual or threatened
litigation under the patent, paying in excess of $33 million to the
plaintiff. Haas was the only company in the machine tool industry to fight
rather than settle, despite facing a damage claim exceeding $270 million.

To even the odds in the litigation, Haas took the offensive and filed several
summary judgment motions against IMS, arguing that the patent was invalid,
unenforceable, and not infringed, and that the plaintiff's nine year delay in
filing suit should bar it from any recovery. On the eve of trial, the court
considered the noninfringement arguments and ruled in Haas's favor. Haas's
belief that complex technology could be successfully explained to a lay judge
or jury and its courageous determination to resist the improper assertions of
infringement despite the widespread capitulation of others was rewarded with
a hard-fought but satisfying win."

Also see:


"Centroid v. Hurco, et. al.; IMS v. Centroid, et. al.

This case, with a 53 page Complaint, was one of the few RICO-patent-unfair
competition cases that have been filed. Favorable settlement for our client
occurred soon after filing the Complaint."

Finally:


"Substantially all of our machine systems and computer control systems
are
manufactured to our specifications by contract manufacturing companies in
Taiwan
and Europe."

Matt