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Conversational Programming and NAMES- very long!
Ron Ginger
I am back from NAMES, and with a 12 hour drive had a lot of time to
think about the events there and some of my views on CNC. I have decided to become a missionary for Conversational programming, and I intend to go after FlashCut as my first convert. First, a new acronym- CPNC- Conversationaly Programmed Numeric Control. (I hereby claim ownersip of that term :-) At NAMES we had a seminar session with 10 of us each doing a short talk on our project/product, then a pannel discussion and Q&A session. We had a hard sell by an AcuRite rep pushing conversational programming. Then we had Fred smith pushing CAD/CAM, and even making a foolish statement that anyone making just one or two parts shouldnt be using CNC at all. He did get soundly shouted down on that statement! I am convinced that there is a need for CPNC. I think the entire audience at NAMES fits exactly the profile of a CPNC user. A single machinist, working in a very low budget shop with refurbed or home made tools, making one-off 'things'. These guys do not need, and are quite likely to never buy complex CAD/CAM tools. They do not have an eningeering department to generate their programs for them. They often make parts with NO drawings- either to make repair parts for some device or to model some real thing they own- from simple tools to entire tractors. They do not make 3D molds or turbine blades. Most of them are computer novices. Ok, so some segment of the world NEEDS CPNC. Another segment of the world really needs G-code CNC and CAM software, and there are already a bunch of companies supporting them. What I intend to work on is the CPNC world. I have made a start at a CPNC program. Feedback form most guys that looked at it was positive, and since I based it alot on AcuRite I thik I have a good model to work from. It still needs a lot of work but its a start. I want to get a forum started that will discuss and develop a better model for CPNC. I will put my code into a GPL form to start this discussion. QUESTION Should we carry on this discussion here on this list or start a new list devoted to CPNC? Remember, this is going to need to get into a lot of detail if we are going to really develop a good package, and we are going to have to exchange large files and screen shots. Now, why did I say that FlashCut would be my first convert? I like Visual Basic as a development tool, and I think it has more than ample capability for the GUI parts of CPNC. Although there is work in progress, no one has a VB like tool for Linux yet. I hate Windows -(3.1, 95 98 or 2000) for its lousy real time ability. This will not change in the foreseeable future. I like Linux ( In real life I am Directotr of Operations for a company and I have standardized ALL my systems and employees on Linux) I can handle Linux, but I think a lot of people that need CPNC cannot. Maybe someday they will be able to, but not yet. The only way to make a decent CPNC system with a windows GUI is to use a separate motion controller box to handle the real time stuff. We had some discussions here a few weeks ago about developing such a box, but that died. FlashCut has a nice one, and its cheap enough to be widely used. BUT- they refuse to release the specs to program it. I harped on this at NAMES to anyone that would listen. I told alot of guys to avoid buying FlashCut because they were offering a closed package that could not be expanded. If you buy FlashCut now you better like the program, because its the ony one you can run- did anyone ever buy a stereo that only came with one song? So, if we can get FlashCut to open their protocol we can develop a CPNC package to use it. I dont expect them to NOT sell their software, I just want the ability to buy their package and run MY software on it. I cannot see how this could do anything but enlarge their market. So, does anyone from FlashCut read this list? does anyone know anyone at FlashCut that would read this message? if so, please forward it to them. Now we could reverse engineer the protocol- its a serial port and would be easy to tap into, but I dont want to do that- why should I write software to help sell their hardware if they are not going to cooperate? My first choice then is to develop CPNC on windows to support the FlashCut controller, but if we are careful in its design the gui aspects of it should work just as qwell driving an EMC/Linux system. Only the interface part would need to be altered. I think I have now set the record for the longest post to this list, so its time to hang up. Anyone going to join me in building a great CPNC system? ron e-mail to ginger@... or ginger@... web: |
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Re: NAMES 2000 PICS
Ray Henry
Jon Elson wrote:
Jon is right on here. I have a copy of the next NIST interpreter and it can be compiled into 3 to 6 axis of cartesian motion. But the motion stuff that has to listen to it and run the coordinated motors is going to take some time. My quick names review. - Awesome working models of all kinds of things. - Hats off to those guys. - Nearly everything moved, spun, fired up... - World's supply of vallium isn't enough for me to model like that! - Fantastic cooperative spirit all round. - CNC's in one place great for the crowd. - CNC's in one place great for most CNC folk. - A lot of interest in each of the different CNC systems. - Dave Anderson did yeoman's service to get babyhex working. - Babyhex was a definite attention grabber. - CNC presentation was standing room only. - Q and A after above was a quick mini CAD_CAM... digest. - Nice to put NAMES to some faces. My quick hex review. - Hexapod, robot, and cartesian kinematics all exist in EMC now. Each can be connected into a working controller by the way that you set up your ini file. If you're using steppers, you'll need to get a bug free steppermot/freqmot file and make sure that your parallel port can pull up/down the appropriate pins. - Babyhex is a device for proof of concept/software/math. It's ability to do work is limited by it's weight and location within the work envelope. My understanding of it is that it did some milling of light plastic at NIST. - Hexapods (Stewart platforms) would not be limited to the geometric relationships that are used in babyhex. The angles between struts at both ends are configurable. - Hexapods have limited x,y,z and roll, pitch, yaw. They will not work on the underside of a piece unless you turn the piece over. (common NAMES question) - Grown up working hexapods, as opposed to babyhex, would need more rigid links or some extra down force. Since the EMC software to drive it is available to the experimenter, I'd think that it would be worth looking at the Kirk screws with integral slideways for a light material, large Z, router/carver. - It was suggested that we could make a long cable babyhex with a camera on board for next years NAMES show. The new motion planning stuff should be ready by then but there is a lot of engineering left. Anyone up for this. - Since I have exposed joists on the ceiling in my basement and spare steppers... If you respond to parts of this shotgun blast it would be a good idea to snip. Ray |
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Re: the mc3479p ic?
Derek Barger
James:
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I do have the data sheets the 350ma is direct drive from the chip itself to the motor. Transistors can change this to a 5A drive. All the other chip makers that say they drive 5A, don't directly you have to add transistors. Derek James Cullins wrote:
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Re: the mc3479p ic?
James Cullins
Use www.Findchips.com to get the data sheets on it. I believe this chip is
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only good for about 350ma per coil. Jim ----- Original Message -----
From: Derek Barger <hightechsystems@...> To: <CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@...> Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 9:29 PM Subject: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] the mc3479p ic? Hi fellow listers, Question has anyone used this ic in a bipolar stepper drive to drive 5A loads? Any pc-board examples out there? Anyone used this with EMC? Derek ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get paid for the stuff you know! Get answers for the stuff you don't. And get $10 to spend on the site! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Welcome to CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@...,an unmoderated list for the discussion of shop built systems, for CAD, CAM, EDM, and DRO. Addresses: Post message: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@... Subscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-subscribe@... Unsubscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-unsubscribe@... List owner: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-owner@..., wanliker@... Moderator: jmelson@... [Moderator] URL to this page: FAQ: bill, List Manager |
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Re: Hexapod movies
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From: <ptengin@...> To: <CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@...> Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 10:45 PM Subject: Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Hexapod movies I have found that google and excite usually turn up the most relevant links for technical subjects,Alta Vista isn't bad either ,yahoo aint so good Thanks for the info. I will give them a go. What search engine you use?I was gonna try a video search on Alta Vista for other cnc movies also.discussion of shop built systems, for CAD, CAM, EDM, and DRO.
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Re: Help: CNC mini-mill comparison
Mike
At 04:32 AM 5/3/00 +0000, you wrote:
I would like to suggest that you look at the following link:Thanks to everyone for great links, comments, resources, etc. I still haven't decided on a mill yet, but will post a review of whatever I end up with here on the list. Between the public posts and e-mails, there haven't been any clear winners among the recommendations but it's all been useful information. |
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Re: NAMES 2000 PICS
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From: <ptengin@...> To: <CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@...> Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 9:48 PM Subject: Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] NAMES 2000 PICS there are some animation movies here and build it yourself plans here(sort of) a quick search on "stewart platform" or "hexapod machine" will turn up several more and a lot of other usefull info Brian In a message dated 5/2/00 12:34:43 AM Hawaiian Standard Time, |
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Re: Help: CNC mini-mill comparison
Eugene Neigoff
I would like to suggest that you look at the following link:
This man has looked at all the DESKTOP CNC MILLS and produced an excellent spreadsheet describing the different small desktop machines. I would suggest that if you can afford it find a Used EMCO MEIERs machine this is the only machine in the small desktop area which uses ball screws and not ACME lead screws. I found used machines for approximately $5,000. These have TRUE .5 Horsepower direct drive for the spindle. Beware of any machine with ACME LEADSCREWS as the problem becomes the BACKLASH adjustment. With a BALL LEAD SCREW this problem in minimixed. An F1 Mill which has the computer built into the package is on sale on E-Bay and looks like it will sell for less than $2500.00. |
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Re: Hexapod movies
In a message dated 5/2/00 7:41:28 PM Hawaiian Standard Time,
bfp@... writes: << a quick search on "stewart platform" or "hexapod machine" will turn up several more and a lot of other usefull info Brian >> Brian, Thanks for the info. I will give them a go. What search engine you use? I was gonna try a video search on Alta Vista for other cnc movies also. Peter THRD, Inc. |
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Re: NAMES 2000 PICS
Dan Falck
Dave,
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Many thanks for posting the pictures! The hexapod looks very interesting. Thank you for volunteering to take it to the show. I'm sure you generated a lot of interest in it and EMC. What kind of comments did you hear about the machine? Was there any interest in the free CNC software? Did any of the commercial vendors check out Ron's or Ray's stuff? Are they worried now? : ) Thanks, Dan On Wed, 31 Dec 1969, you wrote:
Everyone |
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Re: NAMES 2000 PICS
Jon Elson
Bert Eding wrote:
Very interresting!The hexapod version of EMC offers very limited 6-axis control. There is no way to tilt the platform by way of the RS-274 commands. In other words, it accomplishes only 3 degrees of freedom in the commands, and that is the cartesian coordinates. The guys at NIST are working on generalizing the interpreter to accomodate up to 6 degrees of freedom. When this is done, it will not only generalize movement of a Stewart platform (hexapod) but also allow fully general movement of 4-6 axis machines, I am told. I am looking forward to this eagerly, as I have wanted to put a dividing head on my mill. Jon |
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Re: NAMES 2000 PICS
Bert Eding
Very interresting!
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Do you have a special version of EMC, how do You control 6 axes, I am very interested. Is there a 6 axis trajectory planner in this EMC version, if so I woul like to have it. Regards, Bert ----- Original Message -----
From: <daveland@...> To: <CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@...> Cc: "Fred Proctor" <frederick.proctor@...>; "Matt Shaver" <mshaver@...> Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 6:35 AM Subject: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] NAMES 2000 PICS Everyonediscussion of shop built systems, for CAD, CAM, EDM, and DRO.
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Re: NAMES 2000 PICS
Reid
Can someone tell me more about Hexapod? How does it works and seem it is not
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like xyz? What do we use it for? I am interesting to learn more about it. Reid -----Original Message-----
From: daveland@... <daveland@...> To: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@... <CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@...> Cc: Fred Proctor <frederick.proctor@...>; Matt Shaver <mshaver@...> Date: Monday, May 01, 2000 9:34 PM Subject: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] NAMES 2000 PICS Everyonediscussion of shop built systems, for CAD, CAM, EDM, and DRO.
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help with hexapod
I know what a Hexapod milling machine is, but I need help with
understanding what the machine at NAMES is doing. Is it just a way to demo the 6 axis capabilities of EMC? The big ones I have seen have ballscrew arrangements on each "leg". That machine wasn't "cutting" anything, was it? |
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Re: Help: CNC mini-mill comparison
Carlos Guillermo
Mario -
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Nice choppers! Do you have any pictures on your manufacturing setup (CNC...)? Do you fab. the shells yourself? Carlos Guillermo VERVE Engineering & Design
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Re: Digest Number 474
Andrew Werby
Message: 7[I'd say get their new closed loop machine instead, if you can afford it. The speed and accuracy are noticably better, and the spindle speed control is done in the software instead of with a (somewhat flaky) potentiometer. I remounted the motor on mine- it's not a big deal to do, if you're handy. You can also get an inexpensive air turbine attachment for high-speed milling.] [Sherline makes a solid little mill. I'd rate it as more heavy-duty than the MaxNC, but not as beefy as the Taig. While their motor is a bit slow, you could probably boost it with pulleys if you needed to; Sherline supplies a 1/2 hp DC motor, so you'd have plenty of torque.] [I like the Taig CNC too. It is also possible to get them with bigger than standard 200 oz/in motors (for a little more money.) The 60 in/min speed is for rapid traverse, not cutting. They are now using a 1/5 hp spindle motor, so it has more power than the 1/8 hp motor they were using before. And it comes with the SuperCam software, for no additional charge.] [They have been having a problem getting delivery on their regular stepper motors- the supplier has been jerking them around. So shipments have been delayed quite a bit lately. This is supposed to get resolved in the next week or so, and they should get back to a prompt shipping schedule, but check before ordering.] Andrew Werby Andrew Werby - United Artworks Sculpture, Jewelry, and Other Art Stuff |
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