#108682

开云体育

250% is not quite accurate.? My N100 came with 16GB ram, 256GB of SSD storage, built in power supply and a case.? You need to add a case, a fan, a power supply, an sdcard or other storage etc to the RPi to make a fair comparison.? Not trying to ruffle any feathers but we should compare apples to apples.

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I own many RPi (at least 10 [3’s and 4’s and two 400’s but no RPi5 yet) and use for my webserver, a couple of development machines, a weather station, a D-Star hotspot, gaming and other things.? I also own two different N100 type computers, a Mele Quieter 3 to control my telescope, mount, cameras, focusers, filter wheels and astronomy related equipment to do astrophotography, spectroscopy and photometry, and a Kamrui dedicated as a NAS server running OpenMediaVault.

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The RPi would never work for Astronomy as there isn’t the software to support all I need to do.? It’s all Windows based.

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The N100 won’t work for the SBITX as I don’t have any digital and analog ports? to control the radio.? No hardware interface to control the radio bits and bobs.

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Horses for courses.? Decide what you want to do and pick the platform that best supports it.? And it’s OK to own more than one!

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Steve

W5RRX

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Show quoted text

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Ken N2VIP
Sent: Saturday, February 3, 2024 6:37 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [BITX20] sBIT USB boot

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Dave, I'm sorry I appear to have upset you - in the context of this mail list, I asserted that it would require a significant effort to use a $100ish N100 system in a uBitx, and you agree with me, as best I understand your responses.

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I never advocated the RPi was a better desktop device than the N100 boards we are generally discussing - I've been discussing embedded applications, like the *current* uBitx design.

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As for the cost differential, I pushed back on the characterization of the linked-to board as "a bit pricier now" - it's 250% more expensive than the bare RPi 5 board with 8 gigs of RAM, that's not just "a bit pricier" in my opinion, but opinions vary.

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And I will concede, adding items to an RPi to make it a convenient desktop system does raise the cost beyond the cost of the board alone - obviously - but I am not advocating to use the RPi as a desktop, on the other hand you *are* advocating to use an N100 in an embedded application like the uBitx.

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If you really feel the need to respond, please, let's take this off-list - I doubt many here are interested in any further discussion on this matter.

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Ken, N2VIP

On Feb 3, 2024, at 17:09, Dave, N1AI <n1ai@...> wrote:

I guess you just aren't following along, because I just wrote "It's a bit pricier now, but overall it seems quite possible that an Intel variant could take away a lot of Pi's lunch money sooner or later", and earlier in this thread (?here ) I wrote "Jeff is right that the Pi world requires you to select, purchase and assemble more 'stuff' to get a useful setup whereas most SFF PCs come with all the stuff you need right out of the box" and provided links to Jeff's video which shows if you price out all the stuff you need to buy to use a Pi 5 in a desktop configuration then you spend a lot more than the $85 or so that a raw Pi 5 8GB costs.? Want power?? More money!? Want a fan?? More money!? Want a case?? More money!? Want storage faster than a micro sd card?? More money!

#108683

开云体育

Steve,

The $279 computer was the one you linked to that had GPIO pins, from Tom's Hardware website:

And, BTW, you can get Arduino and/or Pi-compatible GPIOs on an Intel platform if that's what you want:?

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It's a bit pricier now, but overall it seems quite possible that an Intel variant could take away a lot of Pi's lunch money sooner or later.

That board is the $279 one I was talking about, a bare board (no Case! Fan! Power!) with a Celeron J4105 and some AMD processor (not N110) and 8 gigs of RAM, which compares very nicely with an 8 Gig RPi 5 board at $80.

In other words comparing "apples to apples", essentially, if not precisely.

Ken, N2VIP

On Feb 3, 2024, at 23:02, Steve Barkes <sbarkes@...> wrote:

250% is not quite accurate.? My N100 came with 16GB ram, 256GB of SSD storage, built in power supply and a case.? You need to add a case, a fan, a power supply, an sdcard or other storage etc to the RPi to make a fair comparison.? Not trying to ruffle any feathers but we should compare apples to apples.

#108688

Are you sure you can do I2S through some GPIO pins? Otherwise it would not work as Pi replacement for the sBitx.

- Rafael

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On 2/4/24 06:57, Ken N2VIP wrote:
Steve,

The $279 computer was the one you linked to that had GPIO pins, from Tom's Hardware website:

/
And, BTW, you can get Arduino and/or Pi-compatible GPIOs on an Intel platform if that's what you want:

It's a bit pricier now, but overall it seems quite possible that an Intel variant could take away a lot of Pi's lunch money sooner or later./

That board is the $279 one I was talking about, a bare board (no Case! Fan! Power!) with a Celeron J4105 and some AMD processor (not N110) and 8 gigs of RAM, which compares very nicely with an 8 Gig RPi 5 board at $80.

In other words comparing "apples to apples", essentially, if not precisely.

Ken, N2VIP

On Feb 3, 2024, at 23:02, Steve Barkes <sbarkes@...> wrote:

250% is not quite accurate.? My N100 came with 16GB ram, 256GB of SSD storage, built in power supply and a case.? You need to add a case, a fan, a power supply, an sdcard or other storage etc to the RPi to make a fair comparison.? Not trying to ruffle any feathers but we should compare apples to apples.

OpenPGP_signature.asc

#108706

开云体育

Apples to apples indeed.? I thought we were comparing to the hundreds of Intel Nuc-like devices flooding the market.? Perhaps buy a $159 Intel and a $4 Pi Pico ?

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After reading the specs I really don’t see any advantage at that price point.

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Thanks for clearing that up.

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Steve

W5RRX

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Show quoted text

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Ken N2VIP
Sent: Saturday, February 3, 2024 11:58 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [BITX20] sBIT USB boot

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Steve,

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The $279 computer was the one you linked to that had GPIO pins, from Tom's Hardware website:

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And, BTW, you can get Arduino and/or Pi-compatible GPIOs on an Intel platform if that's what you want:?

?

It's a bit pricier now, but overall it seems quite possible that an Intel variant could take away a lot of Pi's lunch money sooner or later.

?

That board is the $279 one I was talking about, a bare board (no Case! Fan! Power!) with a Celeron J4105 and some AMD processor (not N110) and 8 gigs of RAM, which compares very nicely with an 8 Gig RPi 5 board at $80.

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In other words comparing "apples to apples", essentially, if not precisely.

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Ken, N2VIP

On Feb 3, 2024, at 23:02, Steve Barkes <sbarkes@...> wrote:

250% is not quite accurate.? My N100 came with 16GB ram, 256GB of SSD storage, built in power supply and a case.? You need to add a case, a fan, a power supply, an sdcard or other storage etc to the RPi to make a fair comparison.? Not trying to ruffle any feathers but we should compare apples to apples.

#108713

On Sun, Feb 4, 2024 at 12:02 AM, Steve Barkes wrote:

The RPi would never work for Astronomy as there isn’t the software to support all I need to do.? It’s all Windows based.

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The N100 won’t work for the SBITX as I don’t have any digital and analog ports? to control the radio.? No hardware interface to control the radio bits and bobs.

I'm trying to get people to think big picture and not think exact replacement with plug compatibility.

IMO there is a lot of overlap between what people use Pi for and what people use x86 stuff for, and the price points are converging rather than diverging.

This puts a lot of pressure on Pi to innovate.

Add to that Upton's desire to float Pi Trading, Inc onto the market, which adds more pressure to retain/expand markets.

IMO this will also put pressure on sbitx to keep moving forward.

If others want to keep running sbitx on Pi 4 in 32 bit mode on an obsolete version of linux, they should.

If others want to stay plug compatible, save money, and innovate all at the same time, they should sell their Pi 4 and get themselves a Pi Zero 2W and start hacking so it all works well in 512MB.

Maybe downgrade the OS to an even older version, because 6 year old code has to be more tried and true than 4 year old code.

Meanwhile I'll be working on Pi 5 with 8GB, fast NVMe storage, the currently supported Pi operating system, a modern IDE and build system, 64-bit mode etc.

I'll even try to be ready for Pi 6 when it shows up, which IMO will be sooner than most people think.

Personally, I'm more interested in moving forward and expanding the code base, rather than staying in the past and shrinking the code base, but to each their own.
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Regards,
Dave, N1AI