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?? I wonder if extra pads could be added to future boards to install test points?? That might make it easier to have strategic test points to check levels and have a common reference point.? Instead trying to specify which end of a capacitor, coil, etc to test from.?? Then people could install these:
?? If you didn't install the pins at least you have a labeled reference point.? That would help in maybe establishing a stable troubleshooting and testing guide if one gets written.? Having not to manage holding meter leads and scope probes to small components with the chance of slipping would make them valuable too.? It would be nice to clip your scope probes on and have hands free to adjust knobs etc.
?73, Michael
KM4OLT
|
"? I wonder if extra pads could be added to future boards to install test points?? That might make it easier
to have strategic test points to check levels and have a common reference point.? Instead trying to specify which end of a capacitor, coil, etc to test from.???"
Those are great ideas!? ?But what *I* hope most is that?
1.? Ashhar F. doesn't get frustrated with dealing with newbie builders and give up!
2.? Doesn't have any catastrophe that fails his company (a group I was with once, was embezzeled!)
3.? Is able to wisely choose staffing and inventory levels so they don't go broke because of ups and downs in demand for his product(s)
4.? People will realize they are purchasing NEW stuff from a FLEDGLING company that simply doesn't have the intricate customer management and pipeline process reporting that huge corporations have --- and they are in a foreign country and dependent on other
companies to ship their product.....so you KNOW you're taking a bit of a gamble when you purchase (less if yoiu chooose DHL) --- they've been VERY upfront that their demand outstripped their expectations and they are basically out of stock and behind the 8
ball on shipping....
Now....if Ashhar ever gets crazy enough to put out an improved printed circuit board (I'm still hoping to eventually be able to buy Raduinos again!)? he might be able to shoehorn in:
a)? a limiting resistor so people can't turn the BIAS VOLTAGE to the sky and fry their devices
b)? a bit of insulating tape over some of the Raduino leads that fly about and have crunched a few boards by making unwanted contact with +12
c)? maybe diode protection for the base of the vulnerable transistor at least in the Bitx40 and maybe in the uBitx if my suggestion turns out to be innocuous
d)? built-in diodes/cap at a few key points so people could measure the RF voltage at a marked test point when they don't have an oscilloscope ---?
e)? changes as we've found to reduce "pops" etc.
f)? change the mic amp gain to be a bit higher
And wiser people than me might point out just a few other improvements that wouldn't use up all his real estate and destroy his impressive design!!!!
Gordon
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
?? I wonder if extra pads could be added to future boards to install test points?? That might make it easier to have strategic test points to check levels and have a common reference point.? Instead trying to specify which end of a capacitor, coil, etc
to test from.?? Then people could install these:
?? If you didn't install the pins at least you have a labeled reference point.? That would help in maybe establishing a stable troubleshooting and testing guide if one gets written.? Having not to manage holding meter leads and scope probes to small components
with the chance of slipping would make them valuable too.? It would be nice to clip your scope probes on and have hands free to adjust knobs etc.
?73, Michael
KM4OLT
|
Well put Gordon
I feel for Ashhar and what he must be facing given overwhelming demand and a barrage of comms regarding product and distribution concerns.
Business startups are never easy and involve a heck of a lot of juggling and balancing...ask me, I'm in one ! He hasn't had the benefit of an initial low demand to cut his teeth on but has had to jump straight into scaling up. Never easy, and even harder in an environment where venture caps and angel investors are likely hard to come by.?
Fair to say that he had no idea that his great design would fly off the shelves so fast. So we should give him some breathing room...he will deliver as expected, even if it takes a while longer than most 1st world consumers are accustomed to.
Paul ZS2OE
|
Michael, apologies...a little off topic and comments not in any way directed at you !
73, Paul ZS2OE
|
Interesting discussion. ?Hans Summer built the test gear into his QCX transceiver and thats been a huge hit. ?Just a little extra programming and allowances for traces to be read by the micro. ?Might just be the wave of the future.?
Dr.?William J. Schmidt - K9HZ J68HZ 8P6HK ZF2HZ PJ4/K9HZ VP5/K9HZ PJ2/K9HZ ? Owner - Operator Big Signal Ranch ¨C K9ZC Staunton, Illinois ? Owner ¨C Operator Villa Grand Piton - J68HZ Soufriere, St. Lucia W.I. Rent it:
email:??bill@... ?
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Show quoted text
On Jan 12, 2018, at 11:49 AM, Gordon Gibby < ggibby@...> wrote:
"? I wonder if extra pads could be added to future boards to install test points?? That might make it easier
to have strategic test points to check levels and have a common reference point.? Instead trying to specify which end of a capacitor, coil, etc to test from.???"
Those are great ideas!? ?But what *I* hope most is that?
1.? Ashhar F. doesn't get frustrated with dealing with newbie builders and give up!
2.? Doesn't have any catastrophe that fails his company (a group I was with once, was embezzeled!)
3.? Is able to wisely choose staffing and inventory levels so they don't go broke because of ups and downs in demand for his product(s)
4.? People will realize they are purchasing NEW stuff from a FLEDGLING company that simply doesn't have the intricate customer management and pipeline process reporting that huge corporations have --- and they are in a foreign country and dependent on other
companies to ship their product.....so you KNOW you're taking a bit of a gamble when you purchase (less if yoiu chooose DHL) --- they've been VERY upfront that their demand outstripped their expectations and they are basically out of stock and behind the 8
ball on shipping....
Now....if Ashhar ever gets crazy enough to put out an improved printed circuit board (I'm still hoping to eventually be able to buy Raduinos again!)? he might be able to shoehorn in:
a)? a limiting resistor so people can't turn the BIAS VOLTAGE to the sky and fry their devices
b)? a bit of insulating tape over some of the Raduino leads that fly about and have crunched a few boards by making unwanted contact with +12
c)? maybe diode protection for the base of the vulnerable transistor at least in the Bitx40 and maybe in the uBitx if my suggestion turns out to be innocuous
d)? built-in diodes/cap at a few key points so people could measure the RF voltage at a marked test point when they don't have an oscilloscope ---?
e)? changes as we've found to reduce "pops" etc.
f)? change the mic amp gain to be a bit higher
And wiser people than me might point out just a few other improvements that wouldn't use up all his real estate and destroy his impressive design!!!!
Gordon
?? I wonder if extra pads could be added to future boards to install test points?? That might make it easier to have strategic test points to check levels and have a common reference point.? Instead trying to specify which end of a capacitor, coil, etc
to test from.?? Then people could install these:
?? If you didn't install the pins at least you have a labeled reference point.? That would help in maybe establishing a stable troubleshooting and testing guide if one gets written.? Having not to manage holding meter leads and scope probes to small components
with the chance of slipping would make them valuable too.? It would be nice to clip your scope probes on and have hands free to adjust knobs etc.
?73, Michael
KM4OLT
|
Every once in a while I like to put my old econ hat on again. In this case, my question is: Why hasn't someone in the EU taken on a sublicense/distribution role for the ?BITX? The same for the Pacific Rim. I get embarrassed when I need to charge $13 to mail a $5 PCB to someone. I would much rather have a distributor in the EU or the UK take on that role. Clearly, with the ?BITX there likely is a reason of which I'm not aware as it sure seems like a no-brainer to me.
I could be dead wrong on this, but I think Farhan is a little like me in one respect: I sold my software company because I got so involved in day-to-day operations I no longer has time for what I really liked to do: develop software. I think Farhan would rather be bathed in solder smoke than figuring out what type of container is less likely to result in crushed toroids. Some entrepreneur(s) in each of the major markets might try to approach Farhan along those lines. Personally, I'd like to see that happen for a bunch of reasons, not the least of which is that Farhan could devote more time to his major area of comparative advantage: hardware design. We'd all win with that!
Jack, W8TEE
From: Paul Smith <paulsmi55@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2018 1:16 PM
Subject: Re: [BITX20] PCB Test Points?
Well put Gordon
I feel for Ashhar and what he must be facing given overwhelming demand and a barrage of comms regarding product and distribution concerns.
Business startups are never easy and involve a heck of a lot of juggling and balancing...ask me, I'm in one ! He hasn't had the benefit of an initial low demand to cut his teeth on but has had to jump straight into scaling up. Never easy, and even harder in an environment where venture caps and angel investors are likely hard to come by.?
Fair to say that he had no idea that his great design would fly off the shelves so fast. So we should give him some breathing room...he will deliver as expected, even if it takes a while longer than most 1st world consumers are accustomed to.
Paul ZS2OE
|
Michael?? KM4OLT
A possibly better approach seems to be on the horizon from several fledgling ham
radio kit designers.? QRP-Labs has included digital voltmeter capability in the QCX
transceiver that can be configured to monitor strategic points.? Enhancement of that
built-in-test-equipment may be the new future of ham radio kits.? This requires a
significant number of digital and analog inputs to the micro-controller.? This may
force migration to something like the Arduino Mega-2560 board with its 50-plus
inputs and outputs, and a small price increase to support that action.? The larger
processor would also increase amount of memory available for software to support
testing and additional features.
Of course that does not help if the control system is the problem.? For this your idea
of returning to documented test points may be a good idea.? Maybe it would suffice
to silk-screen test points as being connections to specific parts of installed components.
That would point to appropriate places to test without the cost and real-estate
requirement of adding hardware for connection pins and pads.
Arv? K7HKL
_._
On Fri, Jan 12, 2018 at 10:26 AM, Michael Monteith via Groups.Io <michael_r_monteith@...> wrote: ?? I wonder if extra pads could be added to future boards to install test points?? That might make it easier to have strategic test points to check levels and have a common reference point.? Instead trying to specify which end of a capacitor, coil, etc to test from.?? Then people could install these:
?? If you didn't install the pins at least you have a labeled reference point.? That would help in maybe establishing a stable troubleshooting and testing guide if one gets written.? Having not to manage holding meter leads and scope probes to small components with the chance of slipping would make them valuable too.? It would be nice to clip your scope probes on and have hands free to adjust knobs etc.
?73, Michael
KM4OLT
|
Test points might best be on the backside, plenty of room for silkscreen legends there. Self test has been suggested in the past: ? ?? /g/BITX20/message/21500Jerry
On Fri, Jan 12, 2018 at 11:09 am, Arv Evans wrote:
Enhancement of that
built-in-test-equipment may be the new future of ham radio kits.
|
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Fri, Jan 12, 2018 at 12:37 PM, Jerry Gaffke via Groups.Io <jgaffke@...> wrote: Test points might best be on the backside, plenty of room for silkscreen legends there.
Self test has been suggested in the past:
? ??/g/BITX20/message/21500
Jerry
On Fri, Jan 12, 2018 at 11:09 am, Arv Evans wrote:
Enhancement of that
built-in-test-equipment may be the new future of ham radio kits.
|
On Fri, Jan 12, 2018 at 1:37 PM, Jerry Gaffke via Groups.Io <jgaffke@...> wrote:
|
Arv:
Agree with all that you said. Obviously, that won't solve all issues but test points and the additional mile that Hans has gone raises the bar for everyone. Our VFT/TFT board for the BITX40 has a number of test points, with holes for pins, silk screened onto the board (e.g., TP2). Alas, I can't tell you how many emails I got saying "Part TP2 marked on the board isn't listed in the BOM". Ya can't win...
You're absolutely spot-on with the comment about running out of I/O pins, which is why our board brings all of the unused Mega 2560 I/O pins out for experimentation. Al Peter, AC8GY, and I are redoing the board for the ?BITX since it has so many features plus the AD9850 II is now stupidly priced. (BTW, this source has them listed for $12.30: http://www.electrodragon.com/product/ad9850-dds-signal-generator-module/.) The new board is going to stick with the Si5351. We are a LONG way off from having anything even ready for testing, but we are watching what's going on with everyone here very closely. We will definitely have more test points on the board (and a note in the manual telling what they are!) and maybe even try for some of the features Hans has added to the bar.
Is this fun stuff or what?
Jack, W8TEE
From: Arv Evans <arvid.evans@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2018 2:10 PM
Subject: Re: [BITX20] PCB Test Points?
Michael?? KM4OLT
A possibly better approach seems to be on the horizon from several fledgling ham
radio kit designers.? QRP-Labs has included digital voltmeter capability in the QCX
transceiver that can be configured to monitor strategic points.? Enhancement of that
built-in-test-equipment may be the new future of ham radio kits.? This requires a
significant number of digital and analog inputs to the micro-controller.? This may
force migration to something like the Arduino Mega-2560 board with its 50-plus
inputs and outputs, and a small price increase to support that action.? The larger
processor would also increase amount of memory available for software to support
testing and additional features.
Of course that does not help if the control system is the problem.? For this your idea
of returning to documented test points may be a good idea.? Maybe it would suffice
to silk-screen test points as being connections to specific parts of installed components.
That would point to appropriate places to test without the cost and real-estate
requirement of adding hardware for connection pins and pads.
Arv? K7HKL
_._
|
When these boards are done and tested will you be able to buy them all programmed up ready to go for the likes of us who don't have a PC I not in a rush as I am on pre order for my micro bitx like my poor bitx's I have 3 never going to get upgraded chris
On 12 Jan 2018 20:15, "Jack Purdum via Groups.Io" <jjpurdum= [email protected]> wrote: Arv:
Agree with all that you said. Obviously, that won't solve all issues but test points and the additional mile that Hans has gone raises the bar for everyone. Our VFT/TFT board for the BITX40 has a number of test points, with holes for pins, silk screened onto the board (e.g., TP2). Alas, I can't tell you how many emails I got saying "Part TP2 marked on the board isn't listed in the BOM". Ya can't win...
You're absolutely spot-on with the comment about running out of I/O pins, which is why our board brings all of the unused Mega 2560 I/O pins out for experimentation. Al Peter, AC8GY, and I are redoing the board for the ?BITX since it has so many features plus the AD9850 II is now stupidly priced. (BTW, this source has them listed for $12.30: .) The new board is going to stick with the Si5351. We are a LONG way off from having anything even ready for testing, but we are watching what's going on with everyone here very closely. We will definitely have more test points on the board (and a note in the manual telling what they are!) and maybe even try for some of the features Hans has added to the bar.
Is this fun stuff or what?
Jack, W8TEE
Michael?? KM4OLT
A possibly better approach seems to be on the horizon from several fledgling ham
radio kit designers.? QRP-Labs has included digital voltmeter capability in the QCX
transceiver that can be configured to monitor strategic points.? Enhancement of that
built-in-test-equipment may be the new future of ham radio kits.? This requires a
significant number of digital and analog inputs to the micro-controller.? This may
force migration to something like the Arduino Mega-2560 board with its 50-plus
inputs and outputs, and a small price increase to support that action.? The larger
processor would also increase amount of memory available for software to support
testing and additional features.
Of course that does not help if the control system is the problem.? For this your idea
of returning to documented test points may be a good idea.? Maybe it would suffice
to silk-screen test points as being connections to specific parts of installed components.
That would point to appropriate places to test without the cost and real-estate
requirement of adding hardware for connection pins and pads.
Arv? K7HKL
_._
|
He's been very helpful and has a lot of patience to deal with what he has.?? That's why I wanted to keep it simple.
?In thinking about it.? If nothing else if certain test points can be defined maybe just document where the test points should be.?? Then there is no reason you can't sold the test points at the end of the component without the holes.? I don't know how long the through-hole part of it is.? It may need some clipping to keep them short.? Wouldn't want them to put stress on anything.?? Definitely the last option is my least favorite.?
? 73, Michael
KM4OLT
|
?Jack,
?Yeah I'm loving the fact so many people we can learn from as well as share with experiences.
?What got me started on this as a thought was an email I received from All About Circuits and they had an article on
73, Michael
KM4OLT
|
On Fri, Jan 12, 2018 at 12:09 pm, Neil Martinsen-Burrell wrote:
mods
?If you see my reply to Jack as to what got started me on this is a link to what they called SMT Terminals.?? Even without any holes, silk-screening, etc you could attach them to the board for attaching mods. 73, Michael KM4OLT
|
?lol I had to go back and look what you said since I was offended at all.? Rabbit chases aren't bad if they lead to more ideas.
73, Michael
KM4OLT
|
?Chris -- surely there is SOMEONE not too far from you who can put an update on your firmware.....what state or nation are you in?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
When these boards are done and tested will you be able to buy them all programmed up ready to go for the likes of us who don't have a PC I not in a rush as I am on pre order for my micro bitx like my poor bitx's I have 3 never going to get upgraded
chris
|
I am in the UK my main point was the boards the guy was making for the micro bitx would be good if they was built and programmed up a circuit bored with a load of smc parts would be useless to me there to small to see good chris
On 12 Jan 2018 21:08, "Gordon Gibby" < ggibby@...> wrote:
?Chris -- surely there is SOMEONE not too far from you who can put an update on your firmware.....what state or nation are you in?
When these boards are done and tested will you be able to buy them all programmed up ready to go for the likes of us who don't have a PC I not in a rush as I am on pre order for my micro bitx like my poor bitx's I have 3 never going to get upgraded
chris
|
Al and I have talked about it and this might have two flavors:
????1. Just the PCB. There are a lot of people on this site who simply enjoy gathering parts, populating the board, and the smell of solder in the morning. ??? 2. Plug-and-Play. Plug in the cables from the new board into the ?BITX and turn it on. Done. Right now, we're not far enough along to sell it to a manufacturer.
The first option is kind of a bugaboo because a lot of builders still haven't embraced SMD construction, but we think from a cost standpoint, they make a lot of sense.? (We want the entire system, including the ?BITX, to cost under $200.) The second option will require that the manufacturer allow it to still remain an Open Source project. I don't even know if anyone out there exists who would let that happen. If not, option 2 is no longer viable as we really want it Open Source.
If anyone does not have a PC but wants to experiment with any of the Arduino family of ?C, check with your local high school, Junior college, University, or whatever's physics lab to see if they would let you use their PC. Many have the Arduino IDE already installed on a system and would likely let you use it for long enough to compile/upload the code. I had one guy at a recent hamfest tell me his library has the IDE installed! In any case, it doesn't hurt to ask.
Jack, W8TEE
From: chris gress <Chrisg0wfh@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2018 3:24 PM
Subject: Re: [BITX20] PCB Test Points?
When these boards are done and tested will you be able to buy them all programmed up ready to go for the likes of us who don't have a PC I not in a rush as I am on pre order for my micro bitx like my poor bitx's I have 3 never going to get upgraded chris
|
I am happy modding the bitx that's no problem for me as for computers I would not have a clue I see some guys put out circuit boards? to add to the aldreno with lots of extras and a nice display screen it would be nice to get it pre built and programmed to go buying blank boards and buying parts it never going to happen for me may as well stay basic chris
On 12 Jan 2018 21:23, "Jack Purdum via Groups.Io" <jjpurdum= [email protected]> wrote: Al and I have talked about it and this might have two flavors:
????1. Just the PCB. There are a lot of people on this site who simply enjoy gathering parts, populating the board, and the smell of solder in the morning. ??? 2. Plug-and-Play. Plug in the cables from the new board into the ?BITX and turn it on. Done. Right now, we're not far enough along to sell it to a manufacturer.
The first option is kind of a bugaboo because a lot of builders still haven't embraced SMD construction, but we think from a cost standpoint, they make a lot of sense.? (We want the entire system, including the ?BITX, to cost under $200.) The second option will require that the manufacturer allow it to still remain an Open Source project. I don't even know if anyone out there exists who would let that happen. If not, option 2 is no longer viable as we really want it Open Source.
If anyone does not have a PC but wants to experiment with any of the Arduino family of ?C, check with your local high school, Junior college, University, or whatever's physics lab to see if they would let you use their PC. Many have the Arduino IDE already installed on a system and would likely let you use it for long enough to compile/upload the code. I had one guy at a recent hamfest tell me his library has the IDE installed! In any case, it doesn't hurt to ask.
Jack, W8TEE
When these boards are done and tested will you be able to buy them all programmed up ready to go for the likes of us who don't have a PC I not in a rush as I am on pre order for my micro bitx like my poor bitx's I have 3 never going to get upgraded chris
|
Michael Monteith
K9HZ