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I noticed today that both wsjtx and and jtdx were not transmitting at full power.? In the sBitx gui, I have Drive set to 100, but on 10m, I was only getting about 3W out.? I have the output power in both programs set to the max.? I opened the volume control in the pi OS and I can see that the audio output is only 76%.? I can turn it up to 100% while it's transmitting and then the output power on the radio looks correct.? But at the end of the tx it resets and the next cycle it's back to 76%.? How can I turn the power back up?
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In this question, it appears that you were not here when these were discussed. Not exactly, but it's been a year since sbitx v2 was released. The initial settings have been discussed a lot here on the forum. Everyone implemented the solutions according to their needs and possibilities. You can find a lot of information on the topic at sbitx.net.
Since you are planning a POTA plant, do not start implementing them now. So this should have been done earlier. What I would do: take an external frame fan with you and implement the cooling of the heatsink. This takes a lot of heat away from the device. Use a current-limiting power supply (I have v2 with IRFZ24N FETs with 12.5V and 6.00A limit). The battery is not a current limit.
Use the programs' own log file and upload the data to the server. You can also store the ADI files on a USB stick. If you store the files in a folder, rename them with an additional name so that you don't copy them on top of each other. Add a date or create a folder with daily dates and store it there.
So you can dx with the correct settings and a stably well-functioning device. See: I've been using it for 4 months in ft8, ft4 mode with over 2300 qso 112/96 dxcc/cfm with a simple top fed loop antenna that I made in a day. It could even be a POTA antenna, because the balun is on top of a 10-meter pole and the two corners (because it is a Delta loop) are fixed at a height of 5 meters. No tuner is needed and the loop works on 3 bands with 43.8 meters of wire. It's a slanted delta loop that can sometimes be heard very far away.
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Gyula HA3HZ
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I have a similar if not the same problem.
My transmit power is very low in all modes.? This is with a 1:1 SWR.
But, if during transmit, I slide the volume slider up I can raise the power to what appears to be full power.??
On the next transmit cycle it reverts back to low power again.
I could maintain the higher power out if I just slide the volume slider back up during each and every transmission.
I'm talking about the little blue speaker icon in the upper right hand corner.? The one that would normally control the speaker volume out on the PI.
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Yes, this is exactly the issue I'm having.? It drops the output volume to 76% even though I have the power setting in wsjtx at max.? I need every bit of power I can get, ha!
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The foundations must be set well. See related descriptions on sbitx.net.
Now I leave it to you, but I don't know when and how well your device was adjusted at the manufacturer.
Mine is from the first shipment and was not adjusted so I had to do these myself.
It should be known that hw_settings.ini contains the scale value for each band, which affects the magnitude of the output signal.
If you want to remain cautious, you can read the conversations from that time.
The point is that you increase the magnitude of your output signal by increasing this scale value per band by 20%.
Make sure that the output has a dummy load of at least 50 watts.
Do all this if the power-stage FETs are mounted stably and there is a good heat conducting insulator between the FET and the heatsink.
If you have them, you may still need an additional fan to cool the heatsink in the case of higher performance and digital mode.
So this device can be changed freely and according to your skills and knowledge. It is not a factory-set and usable device.
In digital mode, I have 15w at 7MHz, 20w at 14MHz, 8-10w at 21MHz with constant fan cooling.
This is influenced by the propagation and the quality of the antenna. So it can be less at times.
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Gyula HA3HZ
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So where is this "hw_settings.ini" file?
Does this file get changed by the "txcal" command?
I guess I should copy that file off somewhere before I even think about changing it.
Thanks.
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AE9J,
The hw_settings.ini file is in the data folder in the sbitx folder
/home/pi/sbitx/data
I suggest copying the entire folder as your customization settings and the log file are also stored there.
73
Evan
AC9TU
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So here is what I wound up doing that significantly increased my output power on my sBitx V3.? That is without having to move the volume slider up each and every time I transmitted.
I backed up the default_hw_settings.ini and copied the hw_settings_v3.ini over them.? Of course, I did an ls -ltr every step of the way to check for mistakes. Then I did a quick reboot.
cd /home/pi/sbitx/data
ls -ltr
mv default_hw_settings.ini default_hw_settings.bak
ls -ltr
cp hw_settings_v3.ini default_hw_settings.ini
ls -ltr
shutdown now -r
The power increases seem to be reasonable but, I haven't checked every mode on every band yet.
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Want to circle back on this... I'm not quite ready to mess with the hw_settings.ini file yet.? I'm getting decent power when I run FT8 directly from the sBitx software, but I see a big decrease when using jtdx or wsjtx.? Here's a couple screenshots to prove the point.  Here you can see that the power out is only 5w at 15m (you can see jtdx running in the back - set to full power).? ?Before I upgraded to the 64bit version, you could open the sound mixer and see that the alsa audio was not at 100% when jtdx transmitted, and if you moved the slider it would then increase the power at the radio.? I don't seem to have the same mixer as before so I can't get a picture of that.  Here you can see that when running FT8 directly on the radio, I get 10w.? 50% more.? This makes a big difference for me on the west coast US, I don't get hardly any contacts when using wsjtx and jtdx.? Which would be fine, but I'm getting to the point where I want to run grid tracker to go for worked all grid awards.?? So it seems that there's a power knock down happening, I presume in the sbitx software when using the digital mode. Is there a way to increase the alsa audio input from hamlib?
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The solution is in the details!
In the previous message, I described how it works for me.
Why don't they do it this way at the manufacturer? Because then you would go back to them with every little thing that this is not good and that is not good.
So, if you can't do it yourself, and all at your own risk, then my first sentence applies.
If you use an external keyboard, you can take a screenshot with one press of the PrtScr button, because it is part of the OS. You will find the image in the main folder. Copy it, because over time you will get lost among the many pictures.
I made my settings last May according to my knowledge at the time. Until the middle of November, my antenna was only a dummy load.
In the meantime, I did another rendition, but it's complicated.
Don't forget to replace the mica with the AlN (Aluminum Nitride) insulator, because it is a much better heat conductor. I learned to read between the lines, because the right solution is not always where it is in the title. That's why I read almost everything.
Since everyone starts from different foundations, has different knowledge and abilities, many modifications are made from self-developing learning. Everyone has the opportunity to do this.
I have written a lot so far. When I saw that there was no interest in it, I deleted my post.
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Gyula HA3HZ
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I think there's a lot of confusion here..... Let's see if we can clarify a bit.??
My stated problem.? The radio with its built-in software will output acceptable power levels (I wouldn't mind more, but for this conversation, it's fine).? But when using external software, the power levels are dramatically reduced (as proven in the previous
images).??
Hypothesis: There is an issue between external software and internal software that is reducing the power level of tx.? I'm assuming there's some code somewhere that reduces the amount of tx gain when using hamlib. (I poured through code last night, but I didn't
see anything that I could point to directly - but I also don't really know what I'm looking for).
What I understand your solution is: modify the hw_settings.ini file to increase tx output.
My understanding of what that will do:? This will increase tx power across all modes and uses of the radio.? So when using external software, the problem is solved.? But I'm pretty sure that there will still be a tx power drop between external and internal
software.? Which would mean that when using the built-in FT8 or ssb modes of the radio, you would now be overdriving the radio by30-50% and risking burning up the finals.? I'm not interested in doing that.? I use my radio in lots of modes in lots of situations.?
?For example, at home, the radio is in the garage while I'm in the house using VNC on a tablet which gives me access to a larger screen to use jtdx.? When I'm out in the field doing pota and my voice is done at the end of the day, but still want to play radio.
I run FT8, but I don't have my tablet or larger screen so I use the built-in software.? Increasing tx power out across the board isn't a great solution as that doesn't really address the root cause.
If I'm totally misunderstanding your proposed solution, let me know.? You mention there are other threads, can you link to them directly, because I don't see anything that addresses this directly.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
The solution is in the details!
In the previous message, I described how it works for me.
Why don't they do it this way at the manufacturer? Because then you would go back to them with every little thing that this is not good and that is not good.
So, if you can't do it yourself, and all at your own risk, then my first sentence applies.
If you use an external keyboard, you can take a screenshot with one press of the PrtScr button, because it is part of the OS. You will find the image in the main folder. Copy it, because over time you will get lost among the many pictures.
I made my settings last May according to my knowledge at the time. Until the middle of November, my antenna was only a dummy load.
In the meantime, I did another rendition, but it's complicated.
Don't forget to replace the mica with the AlN (Aluminum Nitride) insulator, because it is a much better heat conductor. I learned to read between the lines, because the right solution is not always where it is in the title. That's why I read almost everything.
Since everyone starts from different foundations, has different knowledge and abilities, many modifications are made from self-developing learning. Everyone has the opportunity to do this.
I have written a lot so far. When I saw that there was no interest in it, I deleted my post.
--
Gyula HA3HZ
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When jtdx had the audio error, I tried a few things and noticed that when it goes on the air, the volume control jumps to a certain level.
Therefore, I assume that this setting is done from the program.
Probably so that the ALC level (which I can't see) is not exceeded during transmission, i.e. there is no distorted transmission.
Therefore, I currently see no other option than changing the scale value.
The solution is in the hands or mind of someone who knows more about coding.
--
Gyula HA3HZ
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Having used JTDX extensively with the SBITX (V3 in my case), I made no changes to core SBITX config or settings, what I did do however is using the external power/swr meter to monitor power output from the sbitx, I only use JTDX for Ft8/4 modes regardless of the radio so this is based on some experience.
In the JTDX software the power slider on the right hand side is used to adjust the transmitted audio output, on normal radios you can see the effects on the ALC output monitoring, this is not possible on the SBITX. So to manage this, I monitor the power/swr meter while adjusting the slider, watch for when the power does not increase any further, then back it off so that you can see a reduction in power, you are only looking for a slight change so that you don’t reduce it too far.
As proof, I use this approach regardless of radio, this means that different radios show slightly different ALC indications, the SBITX doesn’t show ALC measurements, so the only way to really tell is to use an external method of measurement which works well for setting up JTDX on the SBITX.
I used the SBITX in the UK Worked All Britain data contest on Sunday, while the SBITX performed OK using FT8 on Sunday, there were some other issues, have used the SBITX a lot on FT8 amd it has done well.
The hardware_settings.ini file is the key to ensuring that output power is set right for all modes, you do need to make sure that the file exists in the sbitx/data directory to configure the power output for the sbitx.
Hope all this makes sense and helps
Regards
Paul G0KAO
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Paul, have you tested tx power out with jtdx and compared that to the sbitx FT8 tx?? It would be really good to get verification on a power meter of the difference between the two.? My radio display shows a pretty big difference.? But maybe that's just a display
thing and the actual power out from the radio is fine???? I don't have an external power meter.... oh wait... I do!? Assuming the meter on my ATU100 has any accuracy, I'll check that when I get home.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Having used JTDX extensively with the SBITX (V3 in my case), I made no changes to core SBITX config or settings, what I did do however is using the external power/swr meter to monitor power output from the sbitx, I only use JTDX for Ft8/4
modes regardless of the radio so this is based on some experience.
In the JTDX software the power slider on the right hand side is used to adjust the transmitted audio output, on normal radios you can see the effects on the ALC output monitoring, this is not possible on the SBITX. So to manage this, I monitor the power/swr
meter while adjusting the slider, watch for when the power does not increase any further, then back it off so that you can see a reduction in power, you are only looking for a slight change so that you don’t reduce it too far.
As proof, I use this approach regardless of radio, this means that different radios show slightly different ALC indications, the SBITX doesn’t show ALC measurements, so the only way to really tell is to use an external method of measurement which works well
for setting up JTDX on the SBITX.
I used the SBITX in the UK Worked All Britain data contest on Sunday, while the SBITX performed OK using FT8 on Sunday, there were some other issues, have used the SBITX a lot on FT8 amd it has done well.
The hardware_settings.ini file is the key to ensuring that output power is set right for all modes, you do need to make sure that the file exists in the sbitx/data directory to configure the power output for the sbitx.
Hope all this makes sense and helps
Regards
Paul G0KAO
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Jeff, I have an sBitx v3, and it also does as you have described, that is, the "sbitx FT8" gives max power at "100% DRV", but the external programs such as WSJT-X, JS8Call and JTDX, all give less than 50% power at "100% DRV". I have my sBitx going out through an MFJ-945e, and that has the usual "VSWR Meter", so I can see the output from the sBitx. I have tried this both with a dummy-load and a loop antenna that I can tune, so what you have described, I can verify with my sBitx v3.?
So far, nobody has stepped forward to give the reason "WHY" this is happening.
?
I am not a programmer, so a cannot say why the software is exhibiting this behavior.? But I did have a look around the source code, and I noticed a line or two in the "sbitx_sound.c" file, that "maybe" is?the reason why the sbitx only gives us "low power" on the external programs.
?
If you open that file, you will find a line of code like this in there:
?
? ?#define LOOPBACK_LEVEL_DIVISOR 8? // Constant used to reduce audio level to the loopback channel (FLDIGI)?
?
That piece of code, I believe, is where the "issue" lies.
?
But, again, WHY? ... why that piece of code?
?
Is it there to protect the sbitx from overheating?? Maybe?
Keep in mind that some of these digital modes are very hard on the "finals".
?
-- Pete VK3PYE
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I have provided information on why this occurs in my discussion of the coefficients used for upper and lower side band frequency bins. With modifications of the code it is easy for my radios to achieve correct power on either upper or lower side band, both using external input or microphone.?
If you search back through the listings or look on the wiki you can find where I’ve documented this
Gordon Kx4z?
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Show quoted text
On Apr 11, 2024, at 21:53, Peter VK3PYE <vk3pye@...> wrote:
? Jeff, I have an sBitx v3, and it also does as you have described, that is, the "sbitx FT8" gives max power at "100% DRV", but the external programs such as WSJT-X, JS8Call and JTDX, all give less than 50% power at "100% DRV". I have my sBitx going out through an MFJ-945e, and that has the usual "VSWR Meter", so I can see the output from the sBitx. I have tried this both with a dummy-load and a loop antenna that I can tune, so what you have described, I can verify with my sBitx v3.?
So far, nobody has stepped forward to give the reason "WHY" this is happening.
?
I am not a programmer, so a cannot say why the software is exhibiting this behavior.? But I did have a look around the source code, and I noticed a line or two in the "sbitx_sound.c" file, that "maybe" is?the reason why the sbitx only gives us "low power" on the external programs.
?
If you open that file, you will find a line of code like this in there:
?
? ?#define LOOPBACK_LEVEL_DIVISOR 8? // Constant used to reduce audio level to the loopback channel (FLDIGI)?
?
That piece of code, I believe, is where the "issue" lies.
?
But, again, WHY? ... why that piece of code?
?
Is it there to protect the sbitx from overheating?? Maybe?
Keep in mind that some of these digital modes are very hard on the "finals".
?
-- Pete VK3PYE
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On Fri, Apr 12, 2024 at 12:01 PM, Gordon Gibby KX4Z wrote:
look on the wiki you can find where I’ve documented this
Thanks Gordon, I had a read of that whole thread, but, as I said, I am no programmer, so I need to just take a back seat and leave this to the "professionals".? I am enjoying the learning curve. What a great hobby :-)? -- Pete VK3PYE
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There is a difference between power output for the radio delivered power on FT8 and what the external software delivers.
First thing to consider is that when using external software the mode is changed to Digital mode on the sbitx app to allow the connectivity to the external software to work, this is where the difference lies, so when reviewing the code it is important to look at the code around this specific mode, which uses the Loopback interfaces hence the Loopback Divisor value maybe the key in this case. I did have a look at this a while ago and probably needs a fresh look as I have focussed on other areas.
One other thing to note, having just done a bit of simple testing into a dummy load:
Withought a hw_settings.ini file in the data directory, the following indicated power output:
Mode set to FT8: Sbitx indicates 0w out, power meter indicates 0.2w out with the sbitx drive set to 19
Changed mode to Digital Mode on sbitx, started JTDX, clicked tune on JTDX, adjusted power slider as described previously then measured output, sbitx indicates 0w, power meter indicate about 0.075w, sbitx drive set to 19
In terminal or using file manager, copy the hw_settings_v3.ini file in the sbitx\data directory to hw_settings.ini file in same directory, then restart the sbitx app. Performed the same tests as above:
sbitx mode set to FT8:
sbitx indicates 1w, power meter indicates 2w with sbitx drive set to 19 as above
Changed sbitx mode to digital, start JTDX:
sbitx indicates 0w, power meter indicates 0.075w with drive set to 19 as above.
These are only indicative values as not using anything calibrated to do the tests but what it does show is that the digital mode output when using external software is restricted within the software, and it is likely to be the Loopback configuration, and quite likely to protect the finals from the duty that digital modes affect as they are 100% duty cycle by their nature.
I can adjust the power to what is needed using the drive control up to what I need, usually never run more than about 5w on data modes anyway, so it works for me, I posted some observations from running the sbitx in the WAB data modes contest on Sunday in the facebook sbitx group, it does work, just need to work around its limitations.
Hope this helps
Paul G0KAO
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Thanks, Paul.? ?The work that I did was not for the DIGITAL mode, but instead for the external? microphone input with USB or LSB.? ? There were amplitude limiters found in the code (likely to protect the amplifier)? that had to be adjusted to handle pure tones (e.g. VARA, JS8, etc) rather than "voice".? ?There were also differences between USB and LSB gain, due to ripple in the crystal filter.? ?All of that can be remedied with some software?changes to coefficients, but the only cases that I worked on, were the ones with truly external inputs, via the microphone input.? ?I don't do "github" but I documented all of? what I learned here and on the wiki for brighter people to take advantage of.? ?
For single sideband, the output power is the total gain of the system times the input signal, and the total gain may depend on multiple different?items, including hardware gain as well as coefficients in the code ("software gain") or limiters, automatic level control, and so on.? ?As the software matures, these various issues need to be smoothed out.
When you purchase a radio such as an ICOM, this is already done.? ?100% basically gets you 100% and ALC and everything else generally "works" properly.? ?Gently, this is what I've tried to advocate:? the basic RADIO needs to be tamed.? ?You can add all kinds of extra genius attributes, but if the basic radio is still squirelly, it won't be as pleasant an experience as it needs to be for the general public to enjoy.? ? I did my "little bit" by trying to explain how to smooth out the ripple in the crystal filter and deal with limitations in the audio software gains/limits.? ? Others will have to get the rest done -- I got my radio to basically operate the way it should for most of the modes which I use.
Adding the GATE PROTECTION was a very, very important improvement and kudos to Ashhar et al for discovering the real cause of the problem and fixing it.? ?Now work needs to be done to fix the code so all the power levels etc are correct for all usages of the equipment.? ? ?My time is somewhat limited due to other responsibilities etc.? ?
73, Gordon KX4Z? ??
On Fri, Apr 12, 2024 at 5:27?AM Paul < g0kaohx@...> wrote: There is a difference between power output for the radio delivered power on FT8 and what the external software delivers.
First thing to consider is that when using external software the mode is changed to Digital mode on the sbitx app to allow the connectivity to the external software to work, this is where the difference lies, so when reviewing the code it is important to look at the code around this specific mode, which uses the Loopback interfaces hence the Loopback Divisor value maybe the key in this case. I did have a look at this a while ago and probably needs a fresh look as I have focussed on other areas.
One other thing to note, having just done a bit of simple testing into a dummy load:
Withought a hw_settings.ini file in the data directory, the following indicated power output:
Mode set to FT8: Sbitx indicates 0w out, power meter indicates 0.2w out with the sbitx drive set to 19
Changed mode to Digital Mode on sbitx, started JTDX, clicked tune on JTDX, adjusted power slider as described previously then measured output, sbitx indicates 0w, power meter indicate about 0.075w, sbitx drive set to 19
In terminal or using file manager, copy the hw_settings_v3.ini file in the sbitx\data directory to hw_settings.ini file in same directory, then restart the sbitx app. Performed the same tests as above:
sbitx mode set to FT8:
sbitx indicates 1w, power meter indicates 2w with sbitx drive set to 19 as above
Changed sbitx mode to digital, start JTDX:
sbitx indicates 0w, power meter indicates 0.075w with drive set to 19 as above.
These are only indicative values as not using anything calibrated to do the tests but what it does show is that the digital mode output when using external software is restricted within the software, and it is likely to be the Loopback configuration, and quite likely to protect the finals from the duty that digital modes affect as they are 100% duty cycle by their nature.
I can adjust the power to what is needed using the drive control up to what I need, usually never run more than about 5w on data modes anyway, so it works for me, I posted some observations from running the sbitx in the WAB data modes contest on Sunday in the facebook sbitx group, it does work, just need to work around its limitations.
Hope this helps
Paul G0KAO
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I just was informed by JJ Martin in the Facebook group that this issue is being addressed by the new 3.1 and 64 bit release.
Just that a good reason to update :-)
?
Hope that this will not require to increase the power default setting that to me looks like a risky workaround.
--
Zvika?
4Z1ZV
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HA3HZ
AE9J
Peter VK3PYE
Zvi Segal