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CW on zbitx

 

Ron, I think you are going down the same path I did on the 64 bit baseline last year. In sbitx_gtk.c we made the tweak like yours which leaves Farhans code and the polling rate undisturbed for all current and future modes, except for new special treatment (more frequent polling) for MODE_CW and CWR.

I like Gordon's comment about the Shannon limit, but there is no limit on how much people will complain when you clip off one of their dits or dahs!

I originally started to go through all the CW related stuff between modem_poll and key_poll to see if it should be streamlined but Farhans original code seems pretty good.

if (ticks % 20 == 0)
modem_poll(mode_id(get_field("r1:mode")->value));
else
{
// calling modem_poll every 20 ticks isn't enough to keep up with a fast
// straight key, so now we go on _every_ tick in MODE_CW or MODE_CWR
if ((mode_id(get_field("r1:mode")->value)) == MODE_CW ||
(mode_id(get_field("r1:mode")->value)) == MODE_CWR)
modem_poll(mode_id(get_field("r1:mode")->value));
}

and over here in sbitx_gtk

if (ticks % 20 == 0 || cw_tx_now ){
modem_poll(mode_id(get_field("r1:mode")->value));
cw_tx_now = 0;
}
Sat, Apr 5, 2025 at 10:04 PM, Ron Carr wrote:


and over here in sbitx_gtk

if (ticks % 20 == 0 || cw_tx_now ){
modem_poll(mode_id(get_field("r1:mode")->value));
cw_tx_now = 0;
}
--
Mike KB2ML
 

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I recently powered up my zbit.? I had an official Pi keyboard and mouse connected through the supplied OTG adapter before applying power.? The zbit power and drive were both set to zero as I had no antenna connected.? The radio seemed to key OK from the keyboard, according to the sidetone I was hearing.

A couple of comments and questions.

Why is it necessary to use an HDMI monitor when updating the software?

I couldn't see the mouse pointer with the above-mentioned connection.

Gerry Sherman

On 2025-04-06 00:07, Erik Erkelens - N2EPE via groups.io wrote:

I think Gordon KX4Z is spot on, the timing of items in the ui_tick() loop need adjusting.
?
I slowed down a few things, and made polling the key more frequent, and now I was able to send at 30WPM (not really - but I'm confident any mistakes were mine, and not the zbitx's).
?
Ron Carr's fix for iambic B is also essential to make that work correctly.
?
My changes are in my , and worked for the very few things I tried, but well may have broken others.
?
I am very excited about this radio and having the ability to see and change how it's working!
?
Erik - n2epe
?
 

I assume you can use extern's with these separate files.?? I suggest to use one.? As an example call the variable
cw_tx_now.? It will need to be defined as extern in one of the files and just declared in the other.
?
Here in modem_cw when leaving the idle state you can add:
?
? ? ? ? ? ? cw_current_symbol = CW_DOT_DELAY;
? ? ? ? }
? ? ? ? else if (symbol_now & CW_WORD_DELAY){
? ? ? ? ? ? keydown_count = 0;
? ? ? ? ? ? keyup_count = cw_period * 6;
? ? ? ? ? ? cw_current_symbol = CW_DOT_DELAY;
? ? ? ? }
? ? ? ? //else just continue in CW_IDLE
??????? if( keydown_count > 0 ) cw_tx_now = 1;

? ? ? ? break;
?
and over here in sbitx_gtk
?
? ? if (ticks % 20 == 0 || cw_tx_now ){
? ? ? modem_poll(mode_id(get_field("r1:mode")->value));
????? cw_tx_now = 0;
? ? }
 

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Eric, thank you very much for performing that test. I read through your code and I think that you are calling modem poll on every tick.

That would certainly suggest that your newfound success indicated it needed to be called more frequently.

I have a suspicion that it will similarly work pretty well even if you call it every fifth tick would you be willing to try that? That would be four times faster than it is currently being called and I think that would allow people to get to 30 words per minute, give or take. I’m just curious because I want to see just where the effective “ Shannon limit “ is?
reached for human perception. ??

Again, thank you very much for trying that test. I don’t have the radio so I can’t make the test.

?I think somebody else explained it very well. That Ashhar was now reading the paddles extremely rapidly, but not acting on it rapidly. You apparently fixed the latter, ?with the fix we thought would work

Difficult to dictate on an iPhone…..


Gordon?


On Apr 5, 2025, at 20:07, Erik Erkelens - N2EPE via groups.io <erik.erkelens@...> wrote:

?
I think Gordon KX4Z is spot on, the timing of items in the ui_tick() loop need adjusting.
?
I slowed down a few things, and made polling the key more frequent, and now I was able to send at 30WPM (not really - but I'm confident any mistakes were mine, and not the zbitx's).
?
Ron Carr's fix for iambic B is also essential to make that work correctly.
?
My changes are in my , and worked for the very few things I tried, but well may have broken others.
?
I am very excited about this radio and having the ability to see and change how it's working!
?
Erik - n2epe
?
 

I think Gordon KX4Z is spot on, the timing of items in the ui_tick() loop need adjusting.
?
I slowed down a few things, and made polling the key more frequent, and now I was able to send at 30WPM (not really - but I'm confident any mistakes were mine, and not the zbitx's).
?
Ron Carr's fix for iambic B is also essential to make that work correctly.
?
My changes are in my , and worked for the very few things I tried, but well may have broken others.
?
I am very excited about this radio and having the ability to see and change how it's working!
?
Erik - n2epe
?
 

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That may somewhat defeat the purpose of break-in

We had the same trouble with the sbitx until we got the software fix going. ?After that, it is really really nice for CW. ?To avoid clicks and thumps I usually set mine to break in neatly between words, but you can’t get an Icom ?to do that without having a ton of clattering. ?

I bet this will eventually get fixed.

Gordon. ?Kx4z?








On Apr 4, 2025, at 17:51, Frank, DD3FH via groups.io <dd3fh@...> wrote:

?
Until everything is working perfectly, you can still make CW QSOs with a little goodwill.
?
This afternoon/evening, I worked with HS100IARU and 8A100IARU using just the zBitx (without any additional PA).
?
When using the straight key, you can hear the initial delay with the first "r." From the second "r" onward, the characters come out flawlessly (as far as I can CW, hi). Delay is set to 700.
?
?
 

Until everything is working perfectly, you can still make CW QSOs with a little goodwill.
?
This afternoon/evening, I worked with HS100IARU and 8A100IARU using just the zBitx (without any additional PA).
?
When using the straight key, you can hear the initial delay with the first "r." From the second "r" onward, the characters come out flawlessly (as far as I can CW, hi). Delay is set to 700.
?
?
 

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I think he is out to Zea without a paddle!!

But he is very resourceful and I bet he will get back!!

Gordon kx4z?



On Apr 4, 2025, at 14:39, Richard Spohn via groups.io <wb2gxm@...> wrote:

?
Ashhar, are you telling us that you are up the zbitx without a paddle?

On Fri, Apr 4, 2025 at 10:52?AM Ashhar Farhan via <farhanbox=[email protected]> wrote:

The next update will have to wait until the weekend is out. I am travelling, with the zbitx, but without a paddle.


On Fri, Apr 4, 2025, 7:11 PM Vince d'Eon VE6LK/AI7LK via <vincedeon=[email protected]> wrote:
Ashar, I tried a longer setting as you suggested, values up from 100 to 300 to 500 to 800 to 1000. It does get better as you increase the delay but is still an issue. So I did a simple test, with the radio idle I simply attempted to key an A, several times. Sometimes it missed the dit, sometimes it missed both the dit and dah and sometimes it registered the character correctly. See video I just posted
73
 

Ashhar, are you telling us that you are up the zbitx without a paddle?


On Fri, Apr 4, 2025 at 10:52?AM Ashhar Farhan via <farhanbox=[email protected]> wrote:

The next update will have to wait until the weekend is out. I am travelling, with the zbitx, but without a paddle.


On Fri, Apr 4, 2025, 7:11 PM Vince d'Eon VE6LK/AI7LK via <vincedeon=[email protected]> wrote:
Ashar, I tried a longer setting as you suggested, values up from 100 to 300 to 500 to 800 to 1000. It does get better as you increase the delay but is still an issue. So I did a simple test, with the radio idle I simply attempted to key an A, several times. Sometimes it missed the dit, sometimes it missed both the dit and dah and sometimes it registered the character correctly. See video I just posted
73
 

Asher, I trust you are not traveling via a creek without your paddle..lol
?
73 de K4FMH
 

Yes, CW feels strange (even after updating: zBitx firmware 1.06, sBitx v3.051). At 18 WPM, iambic A (my usual mode), I sometimes make mistakes I usually do not do, just because the keyer does not pick my keying fast enough. I wonder if the software modifications discussed would improve it. I was going to make this radio one of my main SOTA radios, but not yet.


Missatge de Vince d'Eon VE6LK/AI7LK via <vincedeon=[email protected]> del dia dv., 4 d’abr. 2025 a les 15:41:

Ashar, I tried a longer setting as you suggested, values up from 100 to 300 to 500 to 800 to 1000. It does get better as you increase the delay but is still an issue. So I did a simple test, with the radio idle I simply attempted to key an A, several times. Sometimes it missed the dit, sometimes it missed both the dit and dah and sometimes it registered the character correctly. See video I just posted
73



--
Mikel L. Forcada / Alacant / l'Alacantí / País Valencià
mikel.forcada@...
 

The next update will have to wait until the weekend is out. I am travelling, with the zbitx, but without a paddle.


On Fri, Apr 4, 2025, 7:11 PM Vince d'Eon VE6LK/AI7LK via <vincedeon=[email protected]> wrote:
Ashar, I tried a longer setting as you suggested, values up from 100 to 300 to 500 to 800 to 1000. It does get better as you increase the delay but is still an issue. So I did a simple test, with the radio idle I simply attempted to key an A, several times. Sometimes it missed the dit, sometimes it missed both the dit and dah and sometimes it registered the character correctly. See video I just posted
73
 

Ashar, I tried a longer setting as you suggested, values up from 100 to 300 to 500 to 800 to 1000. It does get better as you increase the delay but is still an issue. So I did a simple test, with the radio idle I simply attempted to key an A, several times. Sometimes it missed the dit, sometimes it missed both the dit and dah and sometimes it registered the character correctly. See video I just posted
73
 

John's experience matches my own. If I turn down Iambic A or B to 12wpm my error rate drops significantly. I don't straight key much so I won't comment there.
?
I'm really looking forward to the software update for this. Happy to be a tester if Ashar wishes to release it to a small group first.
 

100. I'll try a longer setting.
 

What is your cw delay set to? Try setting it to 600


On Fri, Apr 4, 2025, 5:29 PM John AE5X via <ae5x=[email protected]> wrote:
On Thu, Apr 3, 2025 at 09:14 PM, Ron Carr wrote:
It would be interesting if some of the users who say it works or say it doesn't work would report what mode they use.?
It doesn't work on either mode. Straight key mode also omits dots and there is a slight (but very significant) delay between key closure and sidetone/RF generation.
?
73,
?
John AE5X
?
 

On Thu, Apr 3, 2025 at 09:14 PM, Ron Carr wrote:
It would be interesting if some of the users who say it works or say it doesn't work would report what mode they use.?
It doesn't work on either mode. Straight key mode also omits dots and there is a slight (but very significant) delay between key closure and sidetone/RF generation.
?
73,
?
John AE5X
?
 

?
The link is an article on the history of electronic keyers.? It is quite lengthy but if you read it you will learn a lot.? It seems that with each major product introduction a new subtle or not so subtle difference in timing was also introduced.
?
From the article, the major difference between mode A and B is that mode B polls the opposite paddle for a pressed state during the sending of the element and the following element space.? Whereas mode A polls the opposite paddle for a changed of state from not pressed to pressed.? This difference is what prevents mode A from not sending an extra un-keyed element that turns letter K's into C's.
?
The current Zbitx code for mode A polls for a pressed state of the opposite paddle same as mode B during the carrier on? period and does not poll at all during the element carrier off period.?? It would be interesting if some of the users who say it works or say it doesn't work would report what mode they use.? I can't see that a Mode A user would have a good time at all with it working mostly as mode B.
?
The mode B code still has the bug I pointed out twice that will change a DIT paddle contact to sending an unwanted DAH if the paddle contract is made during the carrier off period.
?
? ? ? ? if (cw_mode == CW_IAMBICB){
? ? ? ? ? ? if (cw_next_symbol == CW_IDLE && cw_last_symbol == CW_DOT && (symbol_now & CW_DASH)){
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? cw_next_symbol = CW_DASH;
? ? ? ? ? ? }
? ? ? ? ? ? if (cw_next_symbol == CW_IDLE && cw_last_symbol == CW_DASH && (symbol_now & CW_DOT)){
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? cw_next_symbol = CW_DASH;
? ? ? ? ? ? }
? ? ? ? }
?
 

I updated my Zbitx yesterday (Wednesday) to 3.051 and 1.06. Yes it fixed a couple issues but CW remained unusable. So today (Thursday) I decided to update again, thinking I might have gotten an earlier Raspberry pi copy.
Now I have bricked the radio... No boot up of the Pi ( screen is ok). With an external monitor the Pi doesn't go past the first steps of booting, freezes and ignores keyboard and mouse.
?
It stops at the following:
?????????? USER???????? PID ACCESS COMMAND
/dev/snd/controlc0: Root
 

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?Line 4527: ?modem poll is only being called every 20th tick

Modem_poll , then calls cw_poll -but this cannot happen any faster than every 20th tick with the current code

It is actually CW_POLL that really causes transmit to occur. But this cannot start any faster than every 20th tick because of the way the routines ?are being called.

It is easy enough to prove us wrong. Simply change the calls to modem pole to occur every fourth tick (instead of every 20th tick ) and if it doesn’t get a lot better than we’re wrong.

Wishing you the best!

Gordon




On Apr 3, 2025, at 14:10, Evan Hand via groups.io <elhandjr@...> wrote:

?
Farhan,
?
The issue is most likely caused by poling the state of the key 96000 times a second and only acting upon it in modem poll 10 times per second. The solution in the 64-bit branch was to adjust modem_poll to check multiple times in each call.? The transition states are being made but not acted upon.
?
From modem_pol()
?
/*
This file implements modems for :
Fldigi: We use fldigi as a proxy for all the modems that it implements
?
?
General:
?
There are three functions called to implement almost all the digital modes
1. There is the modem_init() that is used to initialize all the different modems.
2. The modem_poll() is called about 10 times a second to check if any transmit/receiver
changeover is needed, etc.
3. On receive, each time a block of samples is received, modem_rx() is called and?
it despatches the block of samples to the currently selected modem.?
The demodulators call write_console() to call the routines to display the decoded text.
4. During transmit, modem_next_sample() is repeatedly called by the sdr to accumulate
samples. In turn the sample generation routines call get_tx_data_byte() to read the next
text/ascii byte to encode.
?
*/
?
I need to look at the details more to verify that the comment is accurate.
?
73
Evan
AC9TU

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