Re: Harmonics and Relay Replacement
Mike
I suspect that the bracketed phrase (current tested) in the datasheet may be to the relevant clue for this relay (5476). Presumably they are tested to meet the 3A switching capacity.
All of the D2n relays are? BT47 relays it seems, but this series 54xx are designed for British Telecom use (and presumably tested to BT requirements).? 47 W / 6 is the BT classification for a 12v coil relay of BT47 specs.?? Hence the 476 in the number.?? I gleaned this from a read of the Farnell spec.?? I suspect they might be slightly more expensive, but I haven't looked...? I suspect they are still compatible.
I didn't realise that photo had a different number on it until you pointed it out ... I checked only the opening and closing numbers!? I will remove the photo just in case.
Mike
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On 13/10/18 5:41 PM, Mike Doty via Groups.Io wrote:
One thing I want to mention is that I saw over on the ubitx.net site that Mike has posted a picture of an Axicom relay with a part number of V23105A5476A201.? Looking in the PDF document and the D2n datasheets, this particular relay is listed separately from the ones we are discussing.? While it is a 12V relay I haven't been able to confirm that this relay is RF rated.? It's listed as BT47 type with a coil resistance of 280 ohms.? What makes this relay different from the 503 relay isn't clear, other than it is rated for more than 500mW, but there must be reason that it is listed in a separate category.? In case anyone is interested and wants to try this relay, Newark has them on sale right now for $0.99 each.? I purchased 20 this morning and when they arrive I will be cutting the case off of one, as well as dissecting one of the 400mW relays, to do a visual comparison.? I'll post pictures of my results.? I don't think I will be pulling the existing relays off of my rigs to actually test them though:-)
--
Mike Woods
mhwoods@...
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Embarrassed to ask, but... I've just tried for the first time to upgrade my uBITX software to the current KD8CEC release and must have missed something obvious.
?
After unzipping the files, I compiled the file with 1602 in it that I thought was for the standard LCD display, it compiled and loaded fine, and I saw a screen of small w's.
?
I powered down and back and got the top row of squares.
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Did I compile the wrong file, or is there something else I've missed??
?
As this was the first shot at this, I loaded the file onto my spare, out of the radio Raduino, if that makes any difference, but I thought I've read it doesn't.
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Thanks, a lot.?
?
Scott ka9p
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-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Woods <mhwoods@...>
To: BITX20 < [email protected]>
Sent: Fri, Oct 12, 2018 11:18 pm
Subject: Re: [BITX20] Recommended fixes on ubitx.net
Thanks Dave
It's been more work than I imagined, but it is a pleasure to see
so many constructors having fun and extending the functionality of
the uBITx.
73 Mike ZL1AXG
On 13/10/18 2:54 PM, davedt1e@... wrote:
Mr Woods,
I can't thank you enough for Ubitx.net.? It's very difficult to
keep up with everything here in the groups...or find previous
postings.? It's very helpfull to have it all neatly summarized
over there.
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Re: Harmonics and Relay Replacement
Kees,
Since I started this, let me jump in here for a minute.? My intention in starting this thread was simply to provide information on favorable results that I had.? I appreciate that Jim jumped in with both feet and tested what I presented and that you are delving even farther into the effort.? I would like to hear from others that try the Axicom relays and have the test equipment to do further evaluations.? That's what makes this group such a great place to share ideas and gather info.
There is a PDF document with data on all of the TE Axicom relays available at .? It's rather lengthy and I've spent a lot of time going thru it trying to answer some of my own questions.? As I said in my original post, I used the V23105A5403A201 400mW relays because that was what I had.? Will one of the higher or lower coil value relays work better or worse - I can't say.? One thing I do notice is the major difference between the 4 coil sizes, other than coil resistance, appears to be in the minimum/maximum operating voltages.? All other specs, to include contact capacitance and isolation appears to be the same for all 4. It may be worthwhile for you to download the document and go thru it.? Tyco Electronics does have a website that will allow you to ask questions of their engineers on-line and, as Jim has suggested, if you really want to get in to the weeds that may be the route to take. Since we are talking about possibly affecting a few thousand radios they may be interested in providing additional information and I'm certain that everyone in the group would appreciate any further info that you can glean.
One thing I want to mention is that I saw over on the ubitx.net site that Mike has posted a picture of an Axicom relay with a part number of V23105A5476A201.? Looking in the PDF document and the D2n datasheets, this particular relay is listed separately from the ones we are discussing.? While it is a 12V relay I haven't been able to confirm that this relay is RF rated.? It's listed as BT47 type with a coil resistance of 280 ohms.? What makes this relay different from the 503 relay isn't clear, other than it is rated for more than 500mW, but there must be reason that it is listed in a separate category.? In case anyone is interested and wants to try this relay, Newark has them on sale right now for $0.99 each.? I purchased 20 this morning and when they arrive I will be cutting the case off of one, as well as dissecting one of the 400mW relays, to do a visual comparison.? I'll post pictures of my results.? I don't think I will be pulling the existing relays off of my rigs to actually test them though:-)
Take care and keep digging!
--73-- Mike? --? W0MNE
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Re: Recommended fixes on ubitx.net
Thanks Dave
It's been more work than I imagined, but it is a pleasure to see
so many constructors having fun and extending the functionality of
the uBITx.
73 Mike ZL1AXG
On 13/10/18 2:54 PM, davedt1e@... wrote:
Mr Woods,
I can't thank you enough for Ubitx.net.? It's very difficult to
keep up with everything here in the groups...or find previous
postings.? It's very helpfull to have it all neatly summarized
over there.
|
I think the 1210 shielded one would be best!
Raj
At 13/10/2018, you wrote:
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Mouser??
Mike
K5ESS
?
From: [email protected]
[
mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of mark bodlovich
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2018 7:10 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [BITX20] Simpler spur fix
?
Been looking around for the 1210 680nh inductors and cannot find a source
yet. I noticed some suppliers only sell in very large quantities like
2000. So has anyone found a source yet or if so would be willing to sell
a few to us who want them. Just putting it out there for consideration.
Please pm me to make arrangements. 73 n7hwr
|
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of mark bodlovich
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2018 7:10 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [BITX20] Simpler spur fix ? Been looking around for the 1210 680nh inductors?and cannot find a source yet. I noticed some suppliers only sell in very large quantities like 2000. So has anyone found a source yet or if so would be willing to sell a few to us who want them. Just putting it out there for consideration. Please pm me to make arrangements. 73 n7hwr
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I ordered a sample book from China.. good for experiments.
Raj
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At 13/10/2018, you wrote: Been looking around for the 1210 680nh inductors and cannot find a source yet. I noticed some suppliers only sell in very large quantities like 2000. So has anyone found a source yet or if so would be willing to sell a few to us who want them. Just putting it out there for consideration. Please pm me to make arrangements. 73 n7hwr
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Re: Harmonics and Relay Replacement
Only way you'll get any more than what's in the data sheet is contact the manufacturer. ?Anything else beyond what's in the spec sheet just guessing without answers from them and I don't have contact info for them so you're on your own. ?I can't answer your questions other than further guessing and I don't intend to do that. ?Again, you do the research. ?I'm accepting the results I came up with on my board. ?I don't have time for anything further. You want answers I don't have so call the mfr. if you can find contact info.
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On Oct 12, 2018, at 9:35 PM, Kees T < windy10605@...> wrote: Jim,
I've looked over that spec sheet and the only thing that tells me is that they are "Signal Relays" have gold plated contacts (all good) ...........and the ones you ordered are?V23105A5403A201??
so the "403" means the option for a 400mW coil.? Nothing tells me what they did to set themselves apart from the herd. The critical contact capacitance of 2pF and the 4pf to the coil is the same as the rest of the herd.
73 Kees K5BCQ
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Re: High Frequency Choke for Bitx40
Here's the simple calculator I've been using.??
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Re: Harmonics and Relay Replacement
Jim,
I've looked over that spec sheet and the only thing that tells me is that they are "Signal Relays" have gold plated contacts (all good but not unique to Axicom) ...........and the ones you ordered are?V23105A5403A201??
so the "403" means the option for a 400mW coil.? Now that is a difference because the "typical" relays have the 200mW coil option. More power means more current and probably fewer turns in the coil. Nothing tells me what they did to set themselves apart from the herd. The critical contact capacitance of 2pF and the 4pf to the coil is the same as the rest of the herd.
73 Kees K5BCQ
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1206 version is available at Digikey 535-11689-1-ND
Cheers,
Jim W0CHL
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Re: High Frequency Choke for Bitx40
I think you are looking for something like this.
For fun use the calculator on that page, enter?160 or higher bands in MHz ?along with the 12 turns of wire you link shows. Compare results with the other ferites (ones beginning with "F") to the other toroids beginning with "T".
Also, you may find something suitable in an old computer power supply if you have a bad one laying around.
Tom KF5NWC
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Re: Recommended fixes on ubitx.net
Mr Woods,
I can't thank you enough for Ubitx.net.? It's very difficult to keep up with everything here in the groups...or find previous postings.? It's very helpfull to have it all neatly summarized over there.
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Re: Harmonics and Relay Replacement
I use pliers and break the component to be removed. Once it is broken apart you can focus on removing one pin at a time. No overheating the board or pads. There is not much thermal mass to draw away heat that way.
--
Mike
AI4NS
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High Frequency Choke for Bitx40
Hello
I'm planning to do the filtering mods for the Bitx40 described here.
The only question I have is what sort of toroid I should get.? The notes mention a High Frequency Choke, but I don't really know what that is.? Various websites mention chokes using different mixes for optimal operation at different frequencies.? Which one should I go for?? What frequency range do I need for this?
Craig (VE6TBW)
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Re: Harmonics and Relay Replacement
See the link I posted from the vender, download and study the data sheet yourself.
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On Oct 12, 2018, at 7:47 PM, Kees T < windy10605@...> wrote: Jim,
Yes, I've seen that posted by you before......but what did they do specifically for RF use ? some spacings ? shielding ? coil core material ??
I also see Axicom has 4 coil power options (like most of the other relay vendors). Which one is correct and which one did you order ?
73 Kees K5BCQ
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Re: Harmonics and Relay Replacement
I really suspect they were really careful with the dielectric properties of all the case and internal insulating material as well as coil wire routing as far away from the switching contacts as possible.?
In the original one I cut open, the coil contact wires were laid haphazardly alongside the movable switching contact. ?I don't ?want to tear up a good $2 relay just to find out whats inside. ?My spectrum analyzer results are good enough proof that Potter & Brumfield (makers of the TE Axicom relays) know what they are doing. ?P & B has been in the relay business for many years and I tend to trust their products over the cheaper stuff, especially in critical RF circuits.
I worked on some pretty exotic RF equipment for a good bit of my 20 years in the US Army and regardless of the equipment's manufacturer, most of the RF switching relays were made by P & B. ??
Jim
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On Oct 12, 2018, at 7:34 PM, Kees T < windy10605@...> wrote: Jim,
Yes, I've seen that posted by you before......but what did they do specifically for RF use ? some spacings ? shielding ? coil core material ??
73 Kees K5BCQ
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Re: Harmonics and Relay Replacement
Jim,
Yes, I've seen that posted by you before......but what did they do specifically for RF use ? some spacings ? shielding ? coil core material ? base dielectric ? housing dielectric ?
I also see Axicom has 4 coil power options (like most of the other relay vendors). Which one is correct and which one did you order ?
73 Kees K5BCQ
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Re: Harmonics and Relay Replacement
Kees, The Axicom relays were designed specifically for RF use and were made with RF isolation in mind where the original relays have almost no RF isolation between contacts, armature & coil because they were simply designed as power switching relays in and absolutely NO thought given to them being used in RF applications. ?I believe I've stated this several times in my other posts.
W0EB
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On Oct 12, 2018, at 7:25 PM, Kees T < windy10605@...> wrote: I think it's great to discover, but I would still like to see WHY the Axicom relays fix the problem and some data plots with and without. There has to be a reason other than the coil being on top of the contacts.??
73 Kees K5BCQ
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Raj vu2zap
Jim Sheldon