I was thinking about the idea of monkey platters being a sweet gift as I was setting some food up for my 12 and 14 year olds this morning.? They were asleep and I wasn't going to be home when they woke up for the day.? When I got home the 14 year old had cooked herself scrambled eggs and sausage.? The 12 year old was eating chips and salsa and waiting for me to microwave her some frozen taquitos.?? The younger ones snacked a little as we walked in the door and that gave me a few minutes to sit and chat with the two who had been at home before making more food for those that wanted it. 
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Really good points, Katie (and sweet stories about generosity at your house).??Thank you for springboarding from that into good unschooling stories.
Of the older/original, this part pretty much cancelled the whole thing out for me:
"An hour before dinner, only veggies are on it.? I really don¡¯t care if my kids ¡°fill up¡± on frozen peas or baby carrots before dinner."
SO MUCH CLOCK! :-)??
"Fill up" is real.? A child really CAN be full!??
But more, the platter was never a sweet gift.? It was something to make the mom's life easier.? And it wasn't a meal.?
My kids' monkey platters weren't always "the meal" either.? Sometimes yes, sometimes no.??
Sandra
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Wow, lots in that.? Instead of using monkey platters to open up their options it's being used as a method of control.?
I'm going to pull out this little piece:?
"Kids would gobble up one item and practically crush each other to get to the 'good stuff' before the others ate it all. "
Not only is scarcity being created by the food selection and amounts but it's also pitting the siblings against each other.?
They're having to compete and someone is losing out.? Instead of feeling abundance they're feeling scarcity and lack.?
That happens often enough accidentally or incidentally in big families that it would be better to actively avoid and prevent situations like that.?
For example, one of my daughters really wanted strawberry popsicles this week.? We bought a box that is just hers and it's in the big freezer where the other kids won't constantly be seeing and thinking about it.? We also got a box for them as well, just in case they felt left out, or she wanted to eat hers while they were around.?
Instead of fighting over the "good stuff" it's one of many options in the freezer.? Instead setting up a dynamic of me vs them, she can be gracious and giving.?
This extends to their relationship in other ways too.? For example she likes to bring one or two little brothers into her room for a piece or two of Halloween candy (She still has most of it).? It's a very sweet way for her to connect with younger siblings when they don't have much else in common right now.?
That wouldn't be happening if all the kids felt like they had to gobble something up before someone else got it.?
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Re: Grandparents and Unschooled Grandkids
I wrote this but somehow it went on a new thread! Reposting on this thread.
First of all, I feel unschooling principles can be extended to everyone in the family and extended family.
A lot of times, as unschooling parents, I find we forget that the decision to unschool was ours and not the grandparents'. The expectation does creep in that grandparents should get that our way of being with our children is better or more evolved than how they raised us.
I find this complain a lot in many unschooling newbies, especially. The parents are almost in a state of rebellion with the grandparents. I find it unfair. It was not their choice that we chose to unschool. Most of the times they are not included in the process of unschooling choices.
I found it easier to see the grandparents as people who made different choices based on what they knew was right for them or the times they were parenting.?
I tried to have conversations with my children around how grandparents think differently, how they might have different values, beliefs and perspectives about life.
?When they were younger I?always?hung around to diffuse any escalation or meltdowns or battle of wits. Also when we were visiting their homes, it was important that we tried to adhere to their ways of living. But when they visited us, I made sure my children could be free to enjoy their home as theirs, while trying to make the grandparents comfortable during their stay.
As the children grew older I took small steps out of the dynamics, I stepped away bit by bit and let them form their own balance and equations with their grandparents. Both sides learnt to negotiate with each other. Each time building my heart muscles, to listen when there were rough edges on either sides, without taking sides.
For me, part of unschooling was also to help my children see that there all kinds of people in the world and that if they valued the relationship for whatever reasons of their own, they might also see how to find those middle paths of love, kindness, fun and joy in these relationships.?
I think what really helped my children to respect the boundaries of other people including grandparents and negotiate the expectations of those relationships, was the freedom of choice and connection they found in our own home. The cup runneth full at home, so giving in a bit here and there with grandparents has not been that hard. Also what helped them was that they were treated with respect for being who they were at home, and that helped them to extend it to their grandparents too.
Dola
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Re: Grandparents and Unschooled Grandkids
On Tue, Nov 30, 2021 at 05:48 PM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
My kids are 11 and 6, and since they were born, my husband and I have valued ¡°Always Saying Yes!¡± to their interests and desires.
This is how that looks on Joyce's page these days:?
Very many people took her original article title, without reading the title, and caused problems for themselves, their children, their marriages, their relationships with others, their own clarity.? ?Very many people came back and said "But you said..." and complained about the problems being caused.
As Joyce wrote later:??
This response, probably more than any response I've written, has helped and confused more people ;-)
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Don't think of "say yes" as a rule. In fact, use the better phrasing of "Say yes more." (I can't remember who first rephrased it that way, but I thank them!) Ask yourself, "Why not? Who's going to die?" If you're unsure of yes say, "Let me think about it." And then?do?think. (You can also get on line to ask for perspective.) Don't use it as a delaying tactic, hoping they'll forget. Be trustworthy.
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See these as tools to move toward being your child's partner. Rather than shutting down a child's request that may be inconvenient, see them as requests to explore, to try out their ideas. Help them find safe, respectful of others, practical ways to do what has piqued their curiosity.?
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I'm keeping the original title because many have said the shocking statement was a helpful pull in the right direction for them.
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That, and the original writing, are here:
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I know that I took one sentence from the first post in this topic, without what followed.? I will quote it below, but the qualifying "I know..." statements didn't change the (seeming) face that problems had been created.? :-)
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That quote with some more context:
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"My kids are 11 and 6, and since they were born, my husband and I have valued ¡°Always Saying Yes!¡± to their interests and desires. Like many here know, sometimes this means saying Yes to a safer variation of their desire or timing that fits the family team, but we usually follow their interests and find the excitement within."
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Sandra
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(If this doesn't look like Sandra Dodd's e-mail, it is one.? "AElflaed" is my medieval-studies/SCA name.)
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Analysis of a misunderstanding (or something).
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I've just finished rearranging and cleaning up the main monkeyplatter page.? One link went to a now-defunct blog, but my practice is to provide a link if I can, through the Internet Archive's Wayback Machine.??
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When I found the post, I had chosen one later than the one I'd first seen.? The mom had abandoned her use of monkey platters (and she didn't call them that in the first place, though pretty clearly that's the idea she was working with).? I wasn't surprised, after seeing how she limited her kids in the first place.??
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I hope the author is hidden/buried.? I'm not interested in who it was, except that it was a homeschooler who had no mention of unschooling in her description or sidebar, and the blog is gone.
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For fun, or for practice, maybe you could read to see what problems this use could create.? If you want to lift a line or phrase and shine an unschooling light on it, feel free to tear it up. There won't be feelings hurt; it's old and the blog's gone and they weren't unschoolers, but What If they WERE? (for purposes of dissection)
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______________________________ Our Munchie Platter
Mar 9th, 2008?
An online friend recommended this a while ago and it works so well for our family.
My kids used to constantly ask me ¡°what can I eat?¡± and pester me for snacks between meals.? Then I saw a post about leaving healthy snacks out on a platter for kids to visit any time they wanted.? I grabbed a plastic 4-compartment party tray that had been headed out as a donation, and our munchie platter was born.
I try to stock it with all healthy foods, things that I¡¯d serve for meals.? They¡¯re often organic and are low in sugar and fat.? I also try to offer a balance of veggies, fruits, protein and carbs.? Lastly, I aim for a rainbow to get a good mix of nutrients¨C green, orange, red, brown, etc.
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Here¡¯s some common fillers here:
- frozen peas
- raisins
- cut oranges
- organic low-sugar, whole grain cereals
- dried berries
- cheese cubes (only once a day since it¡¯s high in calories & fat)
- ?frozen corn
- sunflower seeds
- canned organic green beans
- edamame
- dried apple slices
- melon cubes
- baby carrots
- celery sticks
- fresh seasonal fruit
- plain popcorn
Once something is eaten up, then the kids have to either eat what¡¯s left or wait till later when it¡¯s filled.? An hour before dinner, only veggies are on it.? I really don¡¯t care if my kids ¡°fill up¡± on frozen peas or baby carrots before dinner.??
I¡¯m amazed at how smoothly our days go now that the munchie platter is part of our routine.?? The kids are easily getting in their recommended servings of veggies and fruits now, and it¡¯s made life much easier for me.
Update:? Now that we have 4 kids munching, this has worked less and less well.? Kids would gobble up one item and practically crush each other to get to the ¡°good stuff¡± before the others ate it all.? I find it much easier and more fair to just make up little snack plates a couple of times a day for each child.
Posted in?,??| No Comments
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______________? end of that quote _________________________
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The page in its new-improved state is??and I think it should even work on phones. :-)
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Re: Admissions and pressures (Re: "Concerned Parent" / stepmother)
I used to be able to write better.? This is a garble; sorry:? "?Some forums keep a post under the post where the "reply to group" was checked. "
Some forums are programmed in such a way that even if the subject line is changed, the comment will remain in the same topic IF it was created with a "reply" button.
This currently seems to be sorting only by the subject line without regard to the origin of the reply form.
So don't change the subject line, if you want it to stay in the topic set.??
I will forget. :-)
Whatever holidays (if any) your family celebrates, I hope you're all smiling and feeling warm toward each other.? It's a peace and light season, and I wish peace and light to all of you.
Sandra
On Fri, Dec 3, 2021 at 6:56 PM Sandra Dodd via <AlwaysLearning+owner= [email protected]> wrote: OKAY!? Some forums keep a post under the post where the "reply to group" was checked.? This group doesn't seem to.? Because I changed the subject line, it's separated from the other topic.? Sorry.
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Glad I did the experiment for you, though. :-)
I'll probably forget, too.?
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Re: Admissions and pressures (Re: "Concerned Parent" / stepmother)
OKAY!? Some forums keep a post under the post where the "reply to group" was checked.? This group doesn't seem to.? Because I changed the subject line, it's separated from the other topic.? Sorry.
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Glad I did the experiment for you, though. :-)
I'll probably forget, too.?
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Admissions and pressures (Re: "Concerned Parent" / stepmother)
-=-Her dad has recently admitted he needs to not be so defensive over her and trust me more with her. -=-
WORD ALERT!
"Admitted."
I guess that before, the mom told him to not be defensive and to trust her, but he had denied it.
After more pressure, he has "admitted" ¡ªconfessed in a pre-prepared statement.
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-=-I need some help because what I am doing is not helping and she is not really willing to change.-=-
I don't think the family is unschooling, and I'm not sure why she asked us, but since the 1990s there have been instances of people with difficult questions going to the unschoolers, no matter how much they were critical or avoidant before.??
It seems the mom isn't willing to change, although I hope the calm persuasiveness of those who posted before me has her thinking, and considering her own role in the awkward, untrusting situation.
"Stop doing what's not helping" is the step before "and now what?" If she were an unschooler, she would already have access to an array of "now what"s.
-=-She says it's because of her mom but I sometimes can't tell if that has become an excuse.-=-
Why would she say "it's because of my mom" unless someone was asking her "why are you doing this?"? Another clue in the word choice.? ?Reasons and causes are not excuses.? They are realities.? Even if her mom were to go to the work of recovery, it would not change the daughter's trauma from before.? That isn't "becoming" an excuse.? It is a reality upon which the step-mom could pour compassion.??
Having three other kids in the house must make it difficult to do that.
-=-I have noticed when someone tells her a particular reaction is normal she will use that reaction because it has been "okayed". Any Advice will be greatly appreciated.-=-
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Parents often continue to do what they think other parents do, or what they "can" or "should" or "have to" do, by one traditional method or voice or another.? If someone tells her that it's normal for a parent to demand respect, or to call someone out for attitude, or not to want her to have special privileges (being close with her own dad, while he might be a stepdad to one or two of the others...)... IF a parent is told a particular action is normal, they might continue to use it because it has been okayed.
Sandra
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Birth order and (separately) addiction [Re: "Concerned Parent" / stepmother]
Karen, Jo and Dola caught most of the issues, so I'll try not to repeat, but I might, a bit. :-)? ?
Turns out the mom IS a teacher, and is listed as having "a?16 year old, two 14 year olds, and a 6 year old."
So if the angry step-daughter was one of the 14 year olds when that teacher bio was posted, she's also being compared to a step-sibling her own age, and one older, and one younger.? Sometimes I think birth order is over-rated, and then sometimes I see something like this which puts a huge spotlight on one's position in a group in flux.
"Her mother is an alcoholic and drug addict. She would often disappear in the middle of night. . . .Her mother would promise to her that she would change and never would."
Alcohol and drugs are stronger than most people are.? It can be a bit like an alien presence that takes over one's body, and will defend itself strongly if the person is making any idle promises or deals that could prevent the alcohol or drugs from having their happy way.? It is NOT easy for an addict to just "decide" not to keep using, drinking, whatever it is.??
Those who don't have a tendency toward addiction, or who are abstinent, or for whatever reasons aren't addicts or alcoholics can casually (and cruelly) think (and express) that they are a superior sort of human, with great "self control," or virtue, when it might be more like the luck of the genetic dice-throw.? ?People are as different around that as they are around shoe size and nose shape and musical ability, and if you're thinking right now, "Yeah but those can be inherited," BINGO!? It's not more virtuous to wear a smaller shoe size.? It might be lucky (more options, less storage space).? I'm not an alcoholic and my sister is.? That was lucky, on my part.? I got a lucky DNA blend (in that aspect; she lucked out in some others).
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°ä¨¢³Ù¾±²¹,
Thank you for sharing your struggles, the song, and your world. I especially enjoyed your detailed observations of your room;?a good?reminder to?look around and see things to?be thankful for. This can be a difficult time of year for me, just with the weather being gloomier and more commitments/tasks for the holidays. I am lucky not to have serious medical problems and losses in my family for now.?
The pineapple head picture made me laugh out loud! And yes, that rug is perfect for tic-tac-toe/naughts & crosses. The house as a museum post made me feel better about not having a perfectly decluttered home. It would be fun to see other homes, too!
I agree that finding a friend or stranger to be of service to could be a great way to find some purpose. Perhaps also including some outside time; maybe just sitting outside for lunch or going for a short walk.
Virtual hugs to you, you are already on the right path. And of course, this, too, shall pass.
Gretta
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One of the best things ever in this group was written by Rippy Dusseldorp, who was spooked by me and the group, and then heard me speak in London, and later invited me to stay with her family in Leiden, in the Netherlands.? She is a Canadian (from Alberta) whose parents were born in northern India.? She is married to a Netherlander she met in Australia. :-)??
While I was flattered at what she wrote after hearing me speak, I was more stunned by the depth of her perceptions about the methodology of the discussion, in those days.
/g/AlwaysLearning/message/58654
If you have a bit of time, please read it.? I also saved it on my site, but it might be better to read it there, with my response.??
Sandra
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Re: Grandparents and Unschooled Grandkids
==Because our kids are growing up within a family culture of trust, genuine consideration for their requests, and saying yes whenever possible, I¡¯ve noticed that
our parents don¡¯t necessarily have much room to do any ¡°spoiling¡± or ¡°indulging.¡±==
But that doesn't mean that your kids can't form their own relationships with their grandparents. Just because something is accepted in a culture or as a meme, doesn't mean it needs to be a truth for everyone.
==It feels like the stereotypical roles (grandparents who spoil vs. strict parents) have been reversed in our family, and I¡¯ve noticed that sometimes it seems to leave our parents adrift and a bit confused about what kind of relationship they¡¯re supposed to
have with our kids.==
Once you decided to unschool your kids, you left behind stereotypical roles - and this is just another example. If your parents seem adrift help them forge a relationship with their grandchildren.
==I¡¯m curious about how other families have navigated this dynamic, and how they¡¯ve nurtured grandparent-grandchild relationships with their parents. How
do you help them interact in ways that go beyond simply ¡°spoiling the grandkids¡±?==
When my son was younger, I'll be honest that I probably kind of micro-managed his relationship with my in-laws, especially my MIL. She, in particular, WANTED to be the grandmother who spoilt her grandkids, because that was what she remembered of her own grandmother,
and also how her own Mother treated her grandkids - and - yes - there was little chance for that with my kid, and she did have more rules than we had at home. But I'd encourage them to do other things together - she loves baking, she loves shopping, they made
pasta together, made gingerbread Christmas houses, that kind of thing..I did sometimes engineer situations, but once they were happily doing something together, I tried to back off and leave them to it.?
Now my son is nearly 16, and they have their own relationship that I don't micromanage. And my son has developed his own relationship with my FIL that is now stronger than ever, I'd say.?
My own Mum is not a 'spoiler' - as neither was her Mom/my Nan before her. And although we don't see her often (she's on a different continent) - they've always had a good relationship probably mostly based on the fact that my Mum doesn't, and never has, talked
to him like a kid. She's always treated him like another adult, and he's always appreciated that - even when young. It's a much different looking relationship to his other Nana, though.
All to say - help them develop their own relationships, don't have a preconceived idea of what that should look like. Help them all however you can, especially when kids are small.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Brought anonymously at the request of the author:
My kids are 11 and 6, and since they were born, my husband and I have valued ¡°Always Saying Yes!¡± to their interests and desires. Like many here know, sometimes this means
saying Yes to a safer variation of their desire or timing that fits the family team, but we usually follow their interests and find the excitement within. We currently unschool and have parented with attachment in mind from the beginning. (Both of us were
parented more traditionally and went to public school.)
In the last few years, I¡¯ve noticed the theme of ¡°grandparents are meant to spoil their grandkids¡± within our families and also in the larger mainstream culture in the U.S.
Often quoted memes like ¡°If I¡¯d known grandkids were so much fun, I would have had them first¡± seem to point to a belief that parents are supposed to be the strict ones who say no to their kids and do all the discipline, and grandparents are supposed to the
ones who say yes.
Because our kids are growing up within a family culture of trust, genuine consideration for their requests, and saying yes whenever possible, I¡¯ve noticed that our parents
don¡¯t necessarily have much room to do any ¡°spoiling¡± or ¡°indulging.¡± In fact, it¡¯s often the grandparents who enforce rules that they consider important, like ¡°no dessert before dinner¡± or ¡°only one scoop of ice cream/piece of candy.¡± (Their rules often are
about food, interestingly enough.)
It feels like the stereotypical roles (grandparents who spoil vs. strict parents) have been reversed in our family, and I¡¯ve noticed that sometimes it seems to leave our parents
adrift and a bit confused about what kind of relationship they¡¯re supposed to have with our kids.
I¡¯m curious about how other families have navigated this dynamic, and how they¡¯ve nurtured grandparent-grandchild relationships with their parents. How do you help them interact
in ways that go beyond simply ¡°spoiling the grandkids¡±?
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________________________ end of quote ____________________
Not my writing, but my name will show as the one who posted. ¡ªSandra
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Translation for North America and maybe some others.? C¨¢tia is Portuguese and has British English, I think, as her second (maybe third or more) language.
"It is a perfect rug to play noughts and crosses"
Tic-tac-toe? (nought=zero)_._,_._,_ -- (If this doesn't look like Sandra Dodd's e-mail, it is one.? "AElflaed" is my medieval-studies/SCA name.)
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Sandra wrote ****"And in case people read this and sigh and don't go there, I will bring my real #1 suggestion which is Don't Listen to Sad Music, if you're down."
I find it so true, need to be away from sad movies and sad musics.
Do you have a list of happy movies somewhere? I could make good use to it in the comming months.
my favorite interpreter is Maria Bet?nia, Brazilian. She sings a song that says "sadness is a form of selfishness", it's called "I'll give you joy". is my morning anthem. Here is the link with the lyrics in english:
?The first time I was depressed I was 5 years old, since then I have gone through a few (4 o r 5?)? more or less severe depressive episodes. I learned to identify when I need support and medication, I learned not to be ashamed.?
what I feel now is different, it's an urgency to do something, a lack of purpose... i'm reading the? sugested links anyways, lot's of food ideas there.
This phase is complex to understand? because with the two children full-time, my purpose used to be, to give them and give me joy . Now i find myself without patience to listen to them, to play or do things toguether... sometimes i wonder if it is due to "Covid times", maybe menopause, or is the lack of? breath due to emphisema i need to get used to it? It can also be that i need to learn how to live without someone dying or just dead by my side? We have been trouhth a series of losses due to cancer.
?when I was writing this answer I started to observe and pay attention to the space where I am. I hear the wood crackling in the stove. Beside me, on the sofa, a cardamom and orange infusion. I havd a xmas mug that ky daugther offered me this November.? She loves to make this small gifts all the time.
?I'm wrapped in a yellow fleece blanket, one of my favorite colors. The sofa and chaise longue are just what I wanted, green sofa, huge brown velvet footrest. Everything purchased second-hand or recycled. There are several pillows around me, one is in linen, green and has a label with the brand, it's called "lean against me..."
The 2 dogs are here with me.?
The kids are chatting and laugthing in the kitchen while preparing food to have with my orange/ cardammon tea. My husband is sleeping, he? wakes up at 7am.
In the living room floor we have a small xmas tree in the process of being decorated.
Our rental as the wood floors i like the most "fishbone wood floor". The kids love to run arouund with whool socks and do what they call " to drift".
In the winter, i like to cover the living room floor with a big whool rug. My gaugther dances and play games on it and always as something going on there. Now there is a dog and a fox eating fruits.? She joins them from time to time to eat to, pretending she is different animals.? Her shoes are at the "entrance of the house" to use when she is in "human mode".
It is a perfect rug to play noughts and crosses
My "office space is in this living room. I almost never use it to work, is more of a place to put everything we are using at the moment.?
There is a solar kit in my working space, i'm thinking now that it would be a good idea to? try it tomorrow.?
One of the things i'm finding more and more difficult is to start new projects with the kids, i procrastinate to show what i bring home and to engage with what they are up to. It seams there is always something more important to do, or i'm tyred, or not in the mood. Will try this kit tomorrow! Need to brake this cycle!?
We have a lot of CD's and a really good stereo that was from my mother. One of the things we are enjoying now is to listen to her collection of classical music, while doing something else. Some musics are great and others umbarrable. It's funny how they come up with things they think about due to the music that is playing, many times the convrsartion goes like "i don't know why but this part of the music made me think of..."
I always remember Sandra's texts?
Your house as a museum -
and
building an unschooling nest -
I took so much inspiration from the 2 links in the last decade. It really helps me to see, apreciate, take care of me, my people, our nest and i love to strew all kind of interesting things. We are the type of family that enjoys being at home, we are confortable with each other, just being here, doing "nothing special". This is the total oposite of what i felt about being home, until i started deschooling.?
Don't know how many persons reading here now can? remember the time, in 2010 or 2012, when several moms shared their houses in this group?? It was so nice to see all those spaces, real living spaces where children live, learn, grow, not staged instagram houses. That was really helpfull. Maybe we can repeat one day? (I think i asked this before).
Well, i lost myself in the writing. Sending some photos of us in our living room while i was composing this text on my phone.
Thank you for your tips and for taking your time to read me.?
-- C¨¢tia Maciel?
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This afternoon I've been working on making old pages newer. :-)
This one might have some ideas to overcome immobilizing weirdness.? It might or might not feel like fear, and this might help even if it's not purely and simply "fear."?
There are notes on depression, on my site, as well.? It might not be, nor feel like, depression, but the same principles are at play anyway.? Nothing and nobody can pick you up and set you on a higher plane, but lots of little decisions, many actions, soothing thoughts, can help you move yourself, your mind, your mood.
And in case people read this and sigh and don't go there, I will bring my real #1 suggestion which is Don't Listen to Sad Music, if you're down.
(The link to where I lifted that is on that page. :-) )
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Re: Grandparents and Unschooled Grandkids
Regarding perceived or real favoritism, that isn't necessarily a result of unschooling.? My sister and I had very different relationships with my grandparents because they had an easier time finding things to connect with me about, whereas she was more stressed out by having visitors/visiting.? With my own kids, I try to find things for them to do with their grandparents that both will find enjoyable.?
With one grandmother, that looks more like going out to lunch at a restaurant or an afternoon out at the zoo.? It's more "neutral" than either of our homes and there's a clear set of expectations socially for the kids, and also kind of a natural time limit on the visit.?
For the other grandmother it might be something like taking the dog out for a walk and then blowing bubbles/doing chalk in the backyard.? I prepare the kids ahead of time by letting them know things like we're going to leave the electronics in the car while we're here.? Or maybe I let the grandparents know ahead of time that so and so isn't feeling very social today and is bringing a show to watch while we visit.?
I try to get a feel for what stresses the grandparents out, what they enjoy about the grand kids the most, and then trying to set up our visits to include more of those things and fewer things that might cause conflict.
For example the kids there were some stressful moments with the treatment of the croquet set on our last visit, so before we come over next time I'm planning to ask if it could stay put away for the visit, and I'm going to let the kids know before we go that we won't be playing croquet this time but we WILL be decorating cookies.
Sometimes it helps to reassure the grandparents that it's okay to "spoil" on something in particular.? Like maybe with food I might mention that the kids had a good lunch before we came, so no need to worry about making sure they eat a balanced dinner before dessert.? (No need to include particulars on what that good lunch was).?
And I'll coach the kids ahead of time on things like, "grandma loves to give you a second bowl of ice cream, but she is happier if you don't ask for three bowls."? And the kids know there's more at home, so it's not a big issue.
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The odd mix of boredom, agitation, of time standing still, seems pretty much universal for the past nearly-two years.? Kids are NOT experiencing the peace and exploration they might've without the pandemic and crazy-ass politics (in some places; maybe not in Portugal where C¨¢tia is).
If some of this doesn't apply, I'm sure it will be helpful to other readers.? Alex Wildrising / Alex Arnott wrote this in August 2020.? I'll put a link to the whole topic. It's at facebook.? Apologies to people who don't have an account, or who come here after facebook has fallen apart someday.
____________________ quoting Alex ___________________
Principles of unschooling that have helped me relate differently with my own highly active nervous system:
1) expanding awareness to include all the joy life offers rather than zooming in on the negative;
2) developing a habit of questioning the assumptions my mind make about potential dangers...learning not to take all my thoughts so seriously all the time.
3) developing mindfulness to slow down when my mind feels chaotic so I can reconnect with my values which in turn helps create the condition to make better choices;
4) learning the joy and privilege of being of service to others...I cannot overstate how vital this has been for my mental health. It¡¯s helped me reconnect to others in meaningful ways.
5) deliberately choosing love, which is a wonderful antidote to fear/anger.
These are just a few examples of what¡¯s helped me learn how to be solid in the face of anxious personality traits.
?
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https://www.facebook.com/groups/unschoolingdiscussion2020/posts/295351284905296/?comment_id=298547097919048
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Re: Grandparents and Unschooled Grandkids
First of all, I feel unschooling principles can be extended to everyone in the family and extended family.
A lot of times, as unschooling parents, I find we forget that the decision to unschool was ours and not the grandparents'. The expectation does creep in that grandparents should get that our way of being with our children is better or more evolved than how they raised us.
I find this complain a lot in many unschooling newbies, especially. The parents are almost in a state of rebellion with the grandparents. I find it unfair. It was not their choice that we chose to unschool. Most of the times they are not included in the process of unschooling choices.
I found it easier to see the grandparents as people who made different choices based on what they knew was right for them or the times they were parenting.?
I tried to have conversations with my children around how grandparents think differently, how they might have different values, beliefs and perspectives about life.
?When they were younger I always hung around to diffuse any escalation or meltdowns or battle of wits. Also when we were visiting their homes, it was important that we tried to adhere to their ways of living. But when they visited us, I made sure my children could be free to enjoy their home as theirs, while trying to make the grandparents comfortable during their stay.
As the children grew older I took small steps out of the dynamics, I stepped away bit by bit and let them form their own balance and equations with their grandparents. Both sides learnt to negotiate with each other. Each time building my heart muscles, to listen when their were rough edges on either sides, without taking sides.
For me, part of unschooling was also to help my children see that there all kinds of people in the world and that if they valued the relationship for whatever reasons of their own, they might also see how to find those middle paths of love, kindness, fun and joy in these relationships.?
I think what really helped my children to respect the boundaries of other people including grandparents and negotiate the expectations of those relationships, was the freedom of choice and connection they found in our own home. The cup runneth full at home, so giving in a bit here and there with grandparents has not been that hard. Also what helped them was that they were treated with respect for being who they were at home, and that helped them to extend it to their grandparents too.
Dola
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Re: Grandparents and Unschooled Grandkids
I also thought straight away of the ¡®if your child is more important than your vision of your child¡¯ quote Sandra referred to in the last post. Totally applies to grandparents! (and husbands and sisters and ¡whoever!)
The idea of grandparents always being ¡®treaty¡¯ seems like a stereotype which is not seeing the grandparents as who they are - as people, still also parents themselves.
My mother was never ¡®treaty¡¯ - her gifts were famously mean (it became a family joke that even she acknowledged), and her input into the children¡¯s lives was frankly quite judgmental. But we talked about it as a family (usually when she had just visited or a visit was coming up) and we talked about how seeing her with my kids gave me really helpful insights into her insecurities when she was a mum with young children herself and helped me understand her and feel less anger towards her holding us at arms length. We really knew the love was there and we found ways to let her know we knew.
I suppose it felt sometimes that we as a family were sort of mothering her - acknowledging that she wasn¡¯t finding being a granny particularly easy just as she hasn¡¯t found being a mum easy.
Sometimes the kids would come back from spending time with her and dump on me about how she had said this or that, but I think the very process of listening and talking respectfully about someone we both loved and who we knew loved us (but was complicated) was so bonding - we really grew in those moments and it helped us all understand that people are, well, people, not just grannies or mums or another trope.
She has passed away now and we feel warm about her, but i¡¯ll be honest we don¡¯t miss her expectations. I feel sad that she really missed an opportunity for connection but that was her call. We just worked with what we had.
Belinda
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Sandra Dodd
Catia Maciel
belinda dutch