|
How do I add solar power to my Aliner?
|
Great question! I added Solar to our 2012 Ranger. First thing is to understand the electrical load: what appliances will be using the electricity. Let¡¯s start with lights and assume they are LED! We converted from incandescent which use about 10 times the power of LED. Fridge and hot water heater use 12 volt DC control power. Furnace has the fan which uses a fair amount of power but is not continuous (typically). A microwave. We don¡¯t use that. The ceiling fan. Usually doesn¡¯t run continuously. Air conditioner! I hope not. All of this said, the battery provides the power and the solar recharges the battery. We use a 30 watt panel and have been off grid for close to a month. I added a fused connector to the battery, polarized connectors, a small cable reel and the panel on a stand (homemade). You will need a regulator between the panel and battery! This is critical. Otherwise, when the panel is not charging, it could discharge the battery. I do disconnect the panel at night. The polarized connectors insure that the system can only be connected one way! This should give you some food for thought! Jim
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jul 13, 2024, at 12:12?PM, Tom Lingenfelter <tmlink55@...> wrote:
?How do I add solar power to my Aliner?
|
Congratulations James Van Hoy on making a 30 watt panel work and not run out of electricity. Most people fail miserably with a 100 watt panel. As he mentioned it is good to know your usage and then to follow through and be stingy with that use.
I like to recommend the Renogy 200Watt solar suitcase. It takes the least amount of "accessories" to actually use it for the first time.
Renogy 200 Watt 12 Volt Portable Solar Panel with Waterproof 20A Charger Controller,
This cord Will adapt to your Zamp plug.
Well there you could also look for longer ones to serve as the "extension cord" all in one piece.
CERRXIAN 50cm 10AWG SAE to Male & Female Adapter 10AWG Cable with SAE Conector for RV Panel Solar
|
Greetings?
Once you figure out your electric needs & wants for your solar setup. If you don't want to set up everything yourself portable power stations are a good alternative that will get you up and running fast especially if you want some inverted AC power to run stuff.
Some good brands to checkout are bluetti, ecoflow, Anker (just make sure they are lipo4, some older ones and off brands use other chemistries) when paired with solar panel(s) they are probably the easiest most flexible setup.??
Watch for sales, dont pay more than around $0.50 to $0.60 a watt/hr. (Frequently on sale)
You can watch Bob Wells (cheap rv living) he has some good videos about this?
Happy camping & best of luck in which ever way you choose to go
On Sun, Jul 14, 2024 at 4:29 AM, Eugene Breindel <efbreindel@...> wrote: Congratulations James Van Hoy on making a 30 watt panel work and not run out of electricity. Most people fail miserably with a 100 watt panel. As he mentioned it is good to know your usage and then to follow through and be stingy with that use.
I like to recommend the Renogy 200Watt solar suitcase. It takes the least amount of "accessories" to actually use it for the first time.
Renogy 200 Watt 12 Volt Portable Solar Panel with Waterproof 20A Charger Controller,
This cord Will adapt to your Zamp plug.
Well there you could also look for longer ones to serve as the "extension cord" all in one piece.
CERRXIAN 50cm 10AWG SAE to Male & Female Adapter 10AWG Cable with SAE Conector for RV Panel Solar
|
One question to ask yourself is: Do you want to setup and take down solar panels at each campsite to follow the sun or mount it permanently to the roof and charge while you travel and take a chance on getting enough solar to keep a charge while camping.
We opted for the permanent mount with 350 watts of solar and 2 - 6volt golf cart batteries. While off the grid we use led lights, propane fridge, propane furnace, fantastic fan, phone-device chargers and the standard ¡®safety¡¯ sensors. We don¡¯t have an inverter to be able to use any 110v appliances off grid and I¡¯m not sure our batteries would support much. We have gone 4 days at a shady campsite and we were fully charged when we got back to camp at the end of each day. On a travel day when it rained all day it still charged some.
I sized the solar panels by the size if the front dormer roof where I wanted to put them. I installed the solar controller in a waterproof plastic box on the side of the trailer tongue. There are no penetrations into the camper box (something I was afraid of). The Zamp solar plug and wiring are unused. I think I have somewhere around $800 invested in the solar not counting the batteries. Don¡¯t know if I want to total how much we have put into the camper after buying it.
Happy camping,
JoeS
|
You're getting a lot of conflicting information so I'll give you some if/thens.
If you use only the trailer appliances and minor other stuff like cell phone charging, then get one 100 watt panel. Also get a 10 amp PWM solar controller. They're cheap and provide enough power for trailer appliances, but note that solar will never run your AC.
If you have a dormer, then you can mount the solar panel to the top of the dormer and make it removable, so if the trailer is in the shade you can dismount it and move it to the sun.
If you don't have a good spot to mount the solar panel, then don't mount it. Just lay it on the bed for travel, and set it out when you camp.
If you want a simple and easy way to setup your solar system, then get a solar controller that's waterproof, and bolt it to the side of the battery box. Then you don't have to run wires through your camper walls or floor to reach a controller inside the trailer.
If you want to install or mount almost nothing, then get a 100 watt "solar suitcase". A suitcase is just a solar controller, solar panel, wires, and stand, all in one package. For that all you have to do is connect 2 wires to the battery. But you'll want to attach two stub connectors to your battery terminals so you dont have to open the battery box to hook up the suitcase. For any suitcase you get, make sure the controller is waterproof, because you'll want to leave it out while you are gone.
|
All good advice for the first time solar user.? My only concern: I do not recommend the use of self-contained ¡°suitcase¡± solar arrays IF they mount the charge controller on the array instead of next to the battery.? Reasoning is simple: the controller adjusts the voltage/current output from the array to suit the needs of the battery.? Typically the array outputs up to 20 volts, far too much for a 12 volt battery.? So the controller adjusts the voltage down.? Then there is substantial line loss over the wiring from array to battery, and the connector mounted to the camper sidewall.? So after all this loss, the battery may see only 11-12 volts, not enough for a full charge. ? When the controller is mounted near the battery, then even after line and connector loss, it will see around 18 volts, which is plenty for it to adjust to the 13-14 volts needed by the battery.? Also, being closely coupled with the battery, there is little/no line loss to corrupt its sensitivity to the battery¡¯s state of charge. ? My advice is to always mount the controller near the battery. ? Dave ? ?
|
On Mon, Jul 15, 2024 at 01:30 PM, elegy3983 wrote:
All good advice for the first time solar user.? My only concern: I do not recommend the use of self-contained ¡°suitcase¡± solar arrays IF they mount the charge controller on the array instead of next to the battery.? Reasoning is simple: the controller adjusts the voltage/current output from the array to suit the needs of the battery.? Typically the array outputs up to 20 volts, far too much for a 12 volt battery.? So the controller adjusts the voltage down.? Then there is substantial line loss over the wiring from array to battery, and the connector mounted to the camper sidewall.? So after all this loss, the battery may see only 11-12 volts, not enough for a full charge.
?
?
The voltage drop in the wiring isn't really a problem. During the constant-current (bulk) part of the charge cycle, it doesn't matter at all, unless the drop is so large the panel can't supply the required current. In both that and the constant-voltage (absorption) part, the voltage drop just means the charging will take a little longer, but will not prevent fully charging the battery. The usual Zamp plug on Aliners is connected directly to the battery, which assumes the charge controller will be external. (Without even a fuse, in my case!) I put the controller inside the Aliner and re-wired that plug. An added advantage is that the controller doesn't get rained on. Scott Ellington
|
I have a button on my converter to force it into boost mode, which takes the voltage from around 13.6 to 14.4.? ?That increases the current going into the battery by almost 50%.? The voltage drop for 30 ft of 10 awg wire is .43 volts.? If the drop is proportional to voltage, that would mean a 25% power loss.? That's a pretty big hit.
?
On Mon, Jul 15, 2024 at 10:56 AM, Scott Ellington wrote:
On Mon, Jul 15, 2024 at 01:30 PM, elegy3983 wrote:
All good advice for the first time solar user.? My only concern: I do not recommend the use of self-contained ¡°suitcase¡± solar arrays IF they mount the charge controller on the array instead of next to the battery.? Reasoning is simple: the controller adjusts the voltage/current output from the array to suit the needs of the battery.? Typically the array outputs up to 20 volts, far too much for a 12 volt battery.? So the controller adjusts the voltage down.? Then there is substantial line loss over the wiring from array to battery, and the connector mounted to the camper sidewall.? So after all this loss, the battery may see only 11-12 volts, not enough for a full charge.
?
?
The voltage drop in the wiring isn't really a problem. During the constant-current (bulk) part of the charge cycle, it doesn't matter at all, unless the drop is so large the panel can't supply the required current. In both that and the constant-voltage (absorption) part, the voltage drop just means the charging will take a little longer, but will not prevent fully charging the battery.
The usual Zamp plug on Aliners is connected directly to the battery, which assumes the charge controller will be external. (Without even a fuse, in my case!) I put the controller inside the Aliner and re-wired that plug. An added advantage is that the controller doesn't get rained on.
Scott Ellington
?
|
On Mon, Jul 15, 2024 at 09:25 PM, Steve T wrote:
I have a button on my converter to force it into boost mode, which takes the voltage from around 13.6 to 14.4.? ?That increases the current going into the battery by almost 50%.? The voltage drop for 30 ft of 10 awg wire is .43 volts.? If the drop is proportional to voltage, that would mean a 25% power loss.? That's a pretty big hit.
?
?
If the battery is still in bulk charging mode, the converter will automatically compensate for the voltage drop of the wire, unless it is really large. When the voltage at the charger reaches the preset limit, it goes into absorption mode, at constant voltage. True, at the beginning of this mode, the current is still high, so there will be slightly less voltage at the battery, However, as the battery charges, the current drops and the battery voltage approaches the charger output voltage. All this means is that absorption mode takes a bit longer, but the battery will still get fully charged. Boosting the charger voltage in this mode can overcharge the battery, which is not good. Once the charger goes into float mode, you definitely don't want to boost the voltage.
?
There certainly is no harm in mounting the charger close to the battery and/or using larger wire to minimize voltage drop, which will improve charging efficiency. However, if you don't need the absolute lowest charging time or highest efficiency, it isn't necessary.
?
Note that both the absorption voltage and float voltage are temperature dependent for lead acid batteries. Some chargers include a temperature sensor at the battery and automatically compensate for temperature.
?
All the above applies only to lead acid batteries. Li-ion batteries require different charging conditions.
?
?
Scott Ellington
?
?
?
|
|
|
? Gotta respectfully disagree, Scott.? Try empirical testing (ie: real life measurements) and you¡¯ll see that line loss is always a factor ¨C the longer the line, higher the gauge and lower the voltage, the more loss.? The only way to minimize line loss (not to mention connector losses) is to mount the controller near the battery.? Also, a controller with battery temperature monitoring can only provide that function if it is mounted near the battery. ? Zamp assumes that folks will buy their simplified arrays even if they are inefficient as described above, just because they are easier to implement.? That reality doesn¡¯t justify disregarding or denying the ever presence of line loss and its considerable impact on charging efficiency.? Besides, it can be argued that Zamp in particular really doesn¡¯t care about customers, since they have deliberately reverse wired their brand name connectors to fit their brand only.? ? Dave ? ¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡. ? The voltage drop in the wiring isn't really a problem. During the constant-current (bulk) part of the charge cycle, it doesn't matter at all, unless the drop is so large the panel can't supply the required current. In both that and the constant-voltage (absorption) part, the voltage drop just means the charging will take a little longer, but will not prevent fully charging the battery.
The usual Zamp plug on Aliners is connected directly to the battery, which assumes the charge controller will be external.
|
And lets not forget, having your panel 30 ft away from your Aliner out in the sun, is really 60+ ft of line loss as you have to count both the Pos & Neg wire lengths.?
?
I've done several video's on Youtube on solar on an Aliner.? Check out all the YouTube videos on Solar.? You will get a wide range of applications and information.? Not all of it is bad!
|
I use a 20 foot extension on my 200w suitcase solar panel. Works perfectly: I¡¯ve been camped for 10 days in variable weather with no battery issues. And I even had enough solar power to recharge my Bluetti so I¡¯d have enough AC to charge my toothbrush and run a coffee grinder. The secret there is rewiring the solar panel suitcase so that you can easily unplug one of the panels from the controller and plug it into the Bluetti. The recharge was really just a proof of concept to see how it would work - I didn¡¯t use even 20% of the Bluetti power station capacity. Took a minute to connect, about an hour to recharge and another minute to reconnect.?
I¡¯d say just go ahead and plan to camp at the edge of the shade and extend the solar panels out into the sun. 20 feet of wire is not a problem.? Cindy
Director,
2023 International Autoharp Champion
Have you experienced??
And lets not forget, having your panel 30 ft away from your Aliner out in the sun, is really 60+ ft of line loss as you have to count both the Pos & Neg wire lengths.?
--
Cindy Harris
Pittsburgh, PA
2013 Expedition
|
We have two portable solar panels and a flexible one attached to our Chalet roof. All use at least 12 gauge wire, NOT the standard 16 gauge which will lose power over a 30 ft. run. Our panels are 100 watt, 120 watt, and the 175 watt (attached to the roof). We notice no significant line loss by using 12 gauge wire.
|
Our controllers are also mounted very close to the 100ah LiFePO4 battery, except for the 100 watt Renogy, with its controller mounted on the back of the panel).
|
This whole discussion is about trade offs, not will it work or not.? If you put the solar controller on the side of the battery box, you'll get about 13% more power (rough guess) than if you mount it on the panel which is connected by 20 ft wires. That becomes 26% if you go to 40 ft wires.
?
Cindy, in your case, you don't care, because you have about 4x the power you need.? But for others, the cost of some connectors and a few feet of wire is worth the extra 13 or 26%.
?
On Sat, Aug 3, 2024 at 10:41 PM, Cindy Harris wrote:
I use a 20 foot extension on my 200w suitcase solar panel. Works perfectly: I¡¯ve been camped for 10 days in variable weather with no battery issues. And I even had enough solar power to recharge my Bluetti so I¡¯d have enough AC to charge my toothbrush and run a coffee grinder. The secret there is rewiring the solar panel suitcase so that you can easily unplug one of the panels from the controller and plug it into the Bluetti. The recharge was really just a proof of concept to see how it would work - I didn¡¯t use even 20% of the Bluetti power station capacity. Took a minute to connect, about an hour to recharge and another minute to reconnect.?
?
I¡¯d say just go ahead and plan to camp at the edge of the shade and extend the solar panels out into the sun. 20 feet of wire is not a problem.?
Cindy
?
Director,
?
2023 International Autoharp Champion
?
Have you experienced??
?
?
And lets not forget, having your panel 30 ft away from your Aliner out in the sun, is really 60+ ft of line loss as you have to count both the Pos & Neg wire lengths.?
?
?
--
Cindy Harris
Pittsburgh, PA
2013 Expedition
|
In my installation, 400 watts in 2S2P configuration, 34' run to the charge controller, the working voltage that the charge controller sees is usually between 37 and 40 volts DC. Even on today's terrible cloudy morning, right now I'm at 33 volts and getting 1.4 amps out of the charge controller. Having the panels in series boosting the voltage contributes to minimizing/nullifying line loss.? Here is a link to a YouTube short of two panels in series at the above voltage range.
|
On Sat, Aug 3, 2024 at 07:01 PM, Rick Sutliff wrote:
And lets not forget, having your panel 30 ft away from your Aliner out in the sun, is really 60+ ft of line loss as you have to count both the Pos & Neg wire lengths.?
There's no need to guess at the power loss in the wiring, as it's very easy to calculate. Say you have a typical 100 W panel, with an optimum operating current of 5 A, and 50 feet (one way) of AWG 12 wire. 100 ft of AWG 12 wire has 0.16 Ohms of resistance. (You can look that up.) Power loss is simply (I^2)*R, where I is the current, R is the resistance. In this case, the power loss is 4 W, or 4 percent. The same length of AWG 16 would result in a 10 percent loss. On the other hand, 10 feet of AWG 16 would have a loss of only 2 percent, so little would be gained by using AWG 12.
?
Similar calculation apply to the wiring between the charge controller and battery, though the current may be higher. 100 W at 12 V is about 8 A, so 5 feet (one way) of AWG 12 would result in a power loss of just 1 percent.
?
Scott Ellington
|
Dan, can you explain what is a stub connector? Or show me a picture?
|
James Van Hoy
Eugene Breindel
Rick Sutliff
Michael Galvin