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Monday night I was looking at the latest Home Shop Machinist and saw a cover story about someone making new dials for his Jet mill-drill so theyd look more like Bridgeport dials. (This involved designing a machine to engrave the new dials, designing another machine to resharpen carbide engraving tools to needle sharp points, etc. People in HSM often go overboard in cover articles, perhaps to get to be cover articles).
I paid little attention to the modification story, but I was intrigued by the mill-drill itself. I have a Harbor Freight mini-mill (the one with the tiltable column) that I bought in 2017. It's given me good service and I love using it for drilling, but its low power and small capacity have sometimes been a trial.
For example, when I was restoring my South Bend shaper, I had to make a new gib for the shaper ram out of phosphor bronze. The SB gib is a foot long, and that's the exact length of the table on the mini-mill. So milling the edges of the gib was a mess and cutting oil grooves in it was even worse. I had to keep unclamping the work and moving it on the table, because a one-foot table gives you much less then a foot of table TRAVEL, and a table as long as the work means you can't clamp it on both ends at the same time.?
The thing that saved me on that shaper gib job was that it works fine and will never be seen by human eyes until after I'm dead. But if that had been practically anything else, I would've has to scrap the part (probably several? times), in metal that cost $100/square foot.? Also, even on the lower speed setting, this mini-mill doesn’t have much power.
But the mill-drill in that story had twice as long a table and more capacity in every area,? plus a 2 HP motor. (With real American horses, not Chinese horses). So I looked on ebay to see what they sell for and discovered that the Grizzly equivalent is for sale right across the river in Brooklyn right now, for a used price similar to what I paid for my mini-mill in 2017.
What do people think of this? I know there's criticism of round-columned mill-drills because the head can move from side to side when changing height but I could figure out ways around that, and I'd much rather have that problem than to try to make something more rigid or more powerful then it was designed to be.
?I was originally hesitant about the weight of the thing since I lived by myself and drive a VW GTI. But it looks like it can break down into pieces, and I could make several trips.
I'm sick with a cold, so I'm not visiting the seller immediately, but probably will later this week.
Mike Taglieri?
|
Why not just use a DRO.
A lot work for a dial.
FYI I see a better dial for cross slide of a lathes only.?
Dave?
|
Technically, this type of mill is called a "bed mill" versus a "knee mill" (like the oft mentioned Bridgeports but also larger and smaller knee mills).
If it is in good condition, and even if perhaps not so good, I would expect one of these to produce better results on their worst day than a mini-mill does on its best day.
The primary compromise I suspect most people think about with the "mill-drill" machines is that they are giving up.? And therefore, giving up a much larger work envelope.
I view the mini-mills as just small, weak, low power, low quality, versions of this style.? It is likely that once you have a decent one of these larger versions, you might want to usher your mini-mill out the door.
I think that is probably a long discontinued model, but that probably doesn't matter.? It is very likely that the spindle is R-8 which would be good.? Hopefully some tooling comes with it.
You can go to??to see their current array (which includes mini-mills) and find the closest match to see what a new one might cost retail today.
My bona fides with mills is that I actually DO have a mini-mill that, inexplicably, I find myself using a lot even though I swear at it some.? (Most recently from the locking levers stripping inside as the pot metal crystallized or something.? Little Machine Shop replacement handles to the rescue.)? I also have a Kao Fong knee mill of a medium size of the rotating head style such as the current Grizzly G0731.? At workplaces I have used Bridgeports, a similar Lagun, and a small Clausing 8520 (which makes for a REAL nice milling machine for a home shop.)? For MY home shop, I certainly looked at mill/drills pretty seriously back in the day but got a good deal on the knee mill as I bundled it with a purchase of a Shen-Wai 12x36 lathe.? (Mill and lathe from Taiwan.)? Otherwise, I would probably have bought a mill/drill as being "good enough."
Unless you really need a lot of vertical workpiece space, I think you would be happy with a decent mill/drill.
I know you have a larger lathe, so you know what it is like to use a truly decent machine.? I think many on this group don't know what that's like as mini-whatever's may be their only experience which can, for many, be discouraging at times.? A decent condition mill/drill (so long as NOT the mini-mill version) will give you that same experience of being able to focus on the workpiece and not frustrate with the foibles of a marginal machine.
Charles E. "Chuck" Kinzer??
? ??
On Tuesday, April 9, 2024 at 03:29:36 AM PDT, Miket_NYC <mctaglieri@...> wrote:
Monday night I was looking at the latest Home Shop Machinist and saw a cover story about someone making new dials for his Jet mill-drill so theyd look more like Bridgeport dials. (This involved designing a machine to engrave the new dials, designing another machine to resharpen carbide engraving tools to needle sharp points, etc. People in HSM often go overboard in cover articles, perhaps to get to be cover articles).
I paid little attention to the modification story, but I was intrigued by the mill-drill itself. I have a Harbor Freight mini-mill (the one with the tiltable column) that I bought in 2017. It's given me good service and I love using it for drilling, but its low power and small capacity have sometimes been a trial.
For example, when I was restoring my South Bend shaper, I had to make a new gib for the shaper ram out of phosphor bronze. The SB gib is a foot long, and that's the exact length of the table on the mini-mill. So milling the edges of the gib was a mess and cutting oil grooves in it was even worse. I had to keep unclamping the work and moving it on the table, because a one-foot table gives you much less then a foot of table TRAVEL, and a table as long as the work means you can't clamp it on both ends at the same time.?
The thing that saved me on that shaper gib job was that it works fine and will never be seen by human eyes until after I'm dead. But if that had been practically anything else, I would've has to scrap the part (probably several? times), in metal that cost $100/square foot.? Also, even on the lower speed setting, this mini-mill doesn’t have much power.
But the mill-drill in that story had twice as long a table and more capacity in every area,? plus a 2 HP motor. (With real American horses, not Chinese horses). So I looked on ebay to see what they sell for and discovered that the Grizzly equivalent is for sale right across the river in Brooklyn right now, for a used price similar to what I paid for my mini-mill in 2017.
What do people think of this? I know there's criticism of round-columned mill-drills because the head can move from side to side when changing height but I could figure out ways around that, and I'd much rather have that problem than to try to make something more rigid or more powerful then it was designed to be.
?I was originally hesitant about the weight of the thing since I lived by myself and drive a VW GTI. But it looks like it can break down into pieces, and I could make several trips.
I'm sick with a cold, so I'm not visiting the seller immediately, but probably will later this week.
Mike Taglieri?
|
Oops, missing words in my last post.
One sentence should be:
The primary compromise I suspect most people think about with the "mill-drill" machines is that they are giving up THE KNEE.? And therefore, giving up a much larger work envelope
Charles E. "Chuck" Kinzer
On Tuesday, April 9, 2024 at 08:59:35 AM PDT, Charles Kinzer <ckinzer@...> wrote:
Technically, this type of mill is called a "bed mill" versus a "knee mill" (like the oft mentioned Bridgeports but also larger and smaller knee mills).
If it is in good condition, and even if perhaps not so good, I would expect one of these to produce better results on their worst day than a mini-mill does on its best day.
The primary compromise I suspect most people think about with the "mill-drill" machines is that they are giving up.? And therefore, giving up a much larger work envelope.
I view the mini-mills as just small, weak, low power, low quality, versions of this style.? It is likely that once you have a decent one of these larger versions, you might want to usher your mini-mill out the door.
I think that is probably a long discontinued model, but that probably doesn't matter.? It is very likely that the spindle is R-8 which would be good.? Hopefully some tooling comes with it.
You can go to??to see their current array (which includes mini-mills) and find the closest match to see what a new one might cost retail today.
My bona fides with mills is that I actually DO have a mini-mill that, inexplicably, I find myself using a lot even though I swear at it some.? (Most recently from the locking levers stripping inside as the pot metal crystallized or something.? Little Machine Shop replacement handles to the rescue.)? I also have a Kao Fong knee mill of a medium size of the rotating head style such as the current Grizzly G0731.? At workplaces I have used Bridgeports, a similar Lagun, and a small Clausing 8520 (which makes for a REAL nice milling machine for a home shop.)? For MY home shop, I certainly looked at mill/drills pretty seriously back in the day but got a good deal on the knee mill as I bundled it with a purchase of a Shen-Wai 12x36 lathe.? (Mill and lathe from Taiwan.)? Otherwise, I would probably have bought a mill/drill as being "good enough."
Unless you really need a lot of vertical workpiece space, I think you would be happy with a decent mill/drill.
I know you have a larger lathe, so you know what it is like to use a truly decent machine.? I think many on this group don't know what that's like as mini-whatever's may be their only experience which can, for many, be discouraging at times.? A decent condition mill/drill (so long as NOT the mini-mill version) will give you that same experience of being able to focus on the workpiece and not frustrate with the foibles of a marginal machine.
Charles E. "Chuck" Kinzer??
? ??
On Tuesday, April 9, 2024 at 03:29:36 AM PDT, Miket_NYC <mctaglieri@...> wrote:
Monday night I was looking at the latest Home Shop Machinist and saw a cover story about someone making new dials for his Jet mill-drill so theyd look more like Bridgeport dials. (This involved designing a machine to engrave the new dials, designing another machine to resharpen carbide engraving tools to needle sharp points, etc. People in HSM often go overboard in cover articles, perhaps to get to be cover articles).
I paid little attention to the modification story, but I was intrigued by the mill-drill itself. I have a Harbor Freight mini-mill (the one with the tiltable column) that I bought in 2017. It's given me good service and I love using it for drilling, but its low power and small capacity have sometimes been a trial.
For example, when I was restoring my South Bend shaper, I had to make a new gib for the shaper ram out of phosphor bronze. The SB gib is a foot long, and that's the exact length of the table on the mini-mill. So milling the edges of the gib was a mess and cutting oil grooves in it was even worse. I had to keep unclamping the work and moving it on the table, because a one-foot table gives you much less then a foot of table TRAVEL, and a table as long as the work means you can't clamp it on both ends at the same time.?
The thing that saved me on that shaper gib job was that it works fine and will never be seen by human eyes until after I'm dead. But if that had been practically anything else, I would've has to scrap the part (probably several? times), in metal that cost $100/square foot.? Also, even on the lower speed setting, this mini-mill doesn’t have much power.
But the mill-drill in that story had twice as long a table and more capacity in every area,? plus a 2 HP motor. (With real American horses, not Chinese horses). So I looked on ebay to see what they sell for and discovered that the Grizzly equivalent is for sale right across the river in Brooklyn right now, for a used price similar to what I paid for my mini-mill in 2017.
What do people think of this? I know there's criticism of round-columned mill-drills because the head can move from side to side when changing height but I could figure out ways around that, and I'd much rather have that problem than to try to make something more rigid or more powerful then it was designed to be.
?I was originally hesitant about the weight of the thing since I lived by myself and drive a VW GTI. But it looks like it can break down into pieces, and I could make several trips.
I'm sick with a cold, so I'm not visiting the seller immediately, but probably will later this week.
Mike Taglieri?
|
I owned a lot mills in my life.
They all took a lot space.
The bench I have today is only 9x5 stoke.
Does everything I need today in retirement.?
Dave?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Miket_NYC
3:29am? ?
Monday?
I'm sick with a cold, so I'm not visiting the seller immediately, but probably will later this week.
?
Mike Taglieri
|
I think they made that mill/drill with 3 different table lengths
. I have one with a I believe 30" table unfortunately it's buried
rite now at our other place so I can't get any dimensions for you
.? It is a heavy machine & that will help with some on
vibration . If a guy/gal spends some time setting the machine up
their a pretty capable machine that can & has done a lot of
real nice work . Since yer gonna be taking it apart to move take
some set up tools with ya ad if ya find some things out of true
that's a bargaining tool & ya can do some shimming on
reassembly . That whole discussion on the head loosing tram if its
raised or lowered can be a BS argument in some cases but that can
be a later discussion .
good luck , hope ya feel better
animal
On 4/9/24 3:29 AM, Miket_NYC wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Monday night I was looking at the latest Home Shop
Machinist and saw a cover story about someone making new dials
for his Jet mill-drill so theyd look more like Bridgeport dials.
(This involved designing a machine to engrave the new dials,
designing another machine to resharpen carbide engraving tools
to needle sharp points, etc. People in HSM often go overboard in
cover articles, perhaps to get to be cover articles).
I paid little attention to the modification
story, but I was intrigued by the mill-drill itself. I have a
Harbor Freight mini-mill (the one with the tiltable column)
that I bought in 2017. It's given me good service and I love
using it for drilling, but its low power and small capacity
have sometimes been a trial.
For example, when I was restoring my South
Bend shaper, I had to make a new gib for the shaper ram
out of phosphor bronze. The SB gib is a foot long, and
that's the exact length of the table on the mini-mill. So
milling the edges of the gib was a mess and cutting oil
grooves in it was even worse. I had to keep unclamping the
work and moving it on the table, because a one-foot table
gives you much less then a foot of table TRAVEL, and a
table as long as the work means you can't clamp it on both
ends at the same time.?
The thing that saved me on that shaper gib
job was that it works fine and will never be seen by human
eyes until after I'm dead. But if that had been
practically anything else, I would've has to scrap the
part (probably several? times), in metal that cost
$100/square foot.? Also, even on the lower speed setting,
this mini-mill doesn’t have much power.
But the mill-drill in that story had twice
as long a table and more capacity in every area,? plus a 2
HP motor. (With real American horses, not Chinese horses).
So I looked on ebay to see what they sell for and
discovered that the Grizzly equivalent is for sale right
across the river in Brooklyn right now, for a used price
similar to what I paid for my mini-mill in 2017.
What do people think of this? I know there's
criticism of round-columned mill-drills because the head
can move from side to side when changing height but I
could figure out ways around that, and I'd much rather
have that problem than to try to make something more rigid
or more powerful then it was designed to be.
?I was originally hesitant about the weight
of the thing since I lived by myself and drive a VW GTI.
But it looks like it can break down into pieces, and I
could make several trips.
I'm sick with a cold, so I'm not visiting
the seller immediately, but probably will later this week.
Mike Taglieri?
|
The small mill drill I have I was able to eliminate the vibration and the torque of head.?
I I stall a torque arm and fill the columns with concrete.??
Nice mill now.
Dave?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
mike allen
11:09am? ?
I think they made that mill/drill with 3 different table lengths . I have one with a I believe 30" table unfortunately it's buried rite now at our other place so I can't get any dimensions for you . It is a heavy machine & that will help with some on vibration
|
That mill is still being made & sold by the usual suspects . Grizzly has 2 , well really one but it's sold with or without a DRO . Probably the main difference of these Grizzly ones is it looks like the belt guard may be plastic these days .?
Mike ya can get a parts list off this link .
animal
|
Charles it looks like I have the same import knee mill as the one you mentioned , I was told mine was sold by KBC Tools in the 90's maybe late 80's . Mine is still in 2 pieces from the 350 mile move . Have ya had any issues with yers ?
thanks
animal
|
No problems.? Good mill.? Not good like a Bridgeport, but fine for my garage.? And, of course, no 3-phase motor to have to deal with.? To get it home, I rented an engine lift (for lifting car engines out of cars) but couldn't rig it up to lift the mill high enough, since it is floor model style mill, to get it into a pickup truck bed.? So, I removed the head.? At work I made a thick steel plate with holes to match the column to bolt to and hooked onto the plate.? I could then lift the column/table/base high enough to get into the pickup bed.? And just reversed the procedure at home.
I've also been happy with my Shen-Wai 12x36.? I previously had a Jet belt drive bench top 12x36 which was a perfectly OK lathe but wanted to go a step higher.? The Shen-Wai is geared head with a D1-4 camlock spindle and a removable gap.? That came in real handy once when a 10" South Bend Precision model where I was working at the time couldn't swing something too large for it at about 15 inches (disk like shape), so the part at home with the gap filler removed.? We had a couple machine shops on our same street we used all the time who could have easily done it, but I could do it free, and overnight.? Also, it has a minimum speed of 40 rpm which is pretty unusual.? Most lathes in that class only go down to 70 rpm.
The lathes.co.uk site has a Kao Fong horizontal mill shown.? I guess I should send them a photo of my vertical mill to add.
I got mine in the 1980's, I'm pretty sure.
Charles E. "Chuck" Kinzer
On Tuesday, April 9, 2024 at 09:18:33 PM PDT, mike allen <animal@...> wrote:
Charles it looks like I have the same import knee mill as the one you mentioned , I was told mine was sold by KBC Tools in the 90's maybe late 80's . Mine is still in 2 pieces from the 350 mile move . Have ya had any issues with yers ?
thanks
animal
|
Thanks for this very helpful evaluation. I'm hoping to go see it this week.
I think there's really a fundamental difference between my mini-mill and mini-lathe.? I now have an 11" Logan lathe and it has a gearbox, so I do most of my lathe work on that. But for small jobs and specialized jobs, the minilathe is still useful. By contrast, if there are things a mini-mill could do better than a bigger and more rigid mill, I haven't run across them yet.
Mike Taglieri?
On Tue, Apr 9, 2024, 12:00 PM Charles Kinzer < ckinzer@...> wrote:
Technically, this type of mill is called a "bed mill" versus a "knee mill" (like the oft mentioned Bridgeports but also larger and smaller knee mills).
If it is in good condition, and even if perhaps not so good, I would expect one of these to produce better results on their worst day than a mini-mill does on its best day.
The primary compromise I suspect most people think about with the "mill-drill" machines is that they are giving up.? And therefore, giving up a much larger work envelope.
I view the mini-mills as just small, weak, low power, low quality, versions of this style.? It is likely that once you have a decent one of these larger versions, you might want to usher your mini-mill out the door.
I think that is probably a long discontinued model, but that probably doesn't matter.? It is very likely that the spindle is R-8 which would be good.? Hopefully some tooling comes with it.
You can go to??to see their current array (which includes mini-mills) and find the closest match to see what a new one might cost retail today.
My bona fides with mills is that I actually DO have a mini-mill that, inexplicably, I find myself using a lot even though I swear at it some.? (Most recently from the locking levers stripping inside as the pot metal crystallized or something.? Little Machine Shop replacement handles to the rescue.)? I also have a Kao Fong knee mill of a medium size of the rotating head style such as the current Grizzly G0731.? At workplaces I have used Bridgeports, a similar Lagun, and a small Clausing 8520 (which makes for a REAL nice milling machine for a home shop.)? For MY home shop, I certainly looked at mill/drills pretty seriously back in the day but got a good deal on the knee mill as I bundled it with a purchase of a Shen-Wai 12x36 lathe.? (Mill and lathe from Taiwan.)? Otherwise, I would probably have bought a mill/drill as being "good enough."
Unless you really need a lot of vertical workpiece space, I think you would be happy with a decent mill/drill.
I know you have a larger lathe, so you know what it is like to use a truly decent machine.? I think many on this group don't know what that's like as mini-whatever's may be their only experience which can, for many, be discouraging at times.? A decent condition mill/drill (so long as NOT the mini-mill version) will give you that same experience of being able to focus on the workpiece and not frustrate with the foibles of a marginal machine.
Charles E. "Chuck" Kinzer??
? ??
On Tuesday, April 9, 2024 at 03:29:36 AM PDT, Miket_NYC < mctaglieri@...> wrote:
Monday night I was looking at the latest Home Shop Machinist and saw a cover story about someone making new dials for his Jet mill-drill so theyd look more like Bridgeport dials. (This involved designing a machine to engrave the new dials, designing another machine to resharpen carbide engraving tools to needle sharp points, etc. People in HSM often go overboard in cover articles, perhaps to get to be cover articles).
I paid little attention to the modification story, but I was intrigued by the mill-drill itself. I have a Harbor Freight mini-mill (the one with the tiltable column) that I bought in 2017. It's given me good service and I love using it for drilling, but its low power and small capacity have sometimes been a trial.
For example, when I was restoring my South Bend shaper, I had to make a new gib for the shaper ram out of phosphor bronze. The SB gib is a foot long, and that's the exact length of the table on the mini-mill. So milling the edges of the gib was a mess and cutting oil grooves in it was even worse. I had to keep unclamping the work and moving it on the table, because a one-foot table gives you much less then a foot of table TRAVEL, and a table as long as the work means you can't clamp it on both ends at the same time.?
The thing that saved me on that shaper gib job was that it works fine and will never be seen by human eyes until after I'm dead. But if that had been practically anything else, I would've has to scrap the part (probably several? times), in metal that cost $100/square foot.? Also, even on the lower speed setting, this mini-mill doesn’t have much power.
But the mill-drill in that story had twice as long a table and more capacity in every area,? plus a 2 HP motor. (With real American horses, not Chinese horses). So I looked on ebay to see what they sell for and discovered that the Grizzly equivalent is for sale right across the river in Brooklyn right now, for a used price similar to what I paid for my mini-mill in 2017.
What do people think of this? I know there's criticism of round-columned mill-drills because the head can move from side to side when changing height but I could figure out ways around that, and I'd much rather have that problem than to try to make something more rigid or more powerful then it was designed to be.
?I was originally hesitant about the weight of the thing since I lived by myself and drive a VW GTI. But it looks like it can break down into pieces, and I could make several trips.
I'm sick with a cold, so I'm not visiting the seller immediately, but probably will later this week.
Mike Taglieri?
|
You've probably already found it on the Grizzly site.? They still show it, but as a discontinued model (G1006) but the specs are all there.
I took a closer look at the photos and noticed the collets underneath - nice.? But a really small vise.? I suspect you will want to get a bigger one.? Perhaps look to see if anything is laying around where this is that belongs to it.? From the seller's other items shown, it doesn't look like it is somebody really in the machinery selling business.
One interesting thing is the bolt loosening note written on the side of the machine with a black marker.? I don't think it is likely that a private owner would do that with one in his/her home.? So, this was probably used in a shop somewhere.? And by more than one person.? It has been my experience (and perhaps axiomatic throughout the universe) that if something is used by multiple people, one or more won't use it as if it were their own or even abuse it? ?So, the odds for issues increases.
Charles E. "Chuck" Kinzer
On Wednesday, April 10, 2024 at 04:48:47 AM PDT, Miket_NYC <mctaglieri@...> wrote:
Thanks for this very helpful evaluation. I'm hoping to go see it this week.
I think there's really a fundamental difference between my mini-mill and mini-lathe.? I now have an 11" Logan lathe and it has a gearbox, so I do most of my lathe work on that. But for small jobs and specialized jobs, the minilathe is still useful. By contrast, if there are things a mini-mill could do better than a bigger and more rigid mill, I haven't run across them yet.
Mike Taglieri?
On Tue, Apr 9, 2024, 12:00 PM Charles Kinzer < ckinzer@...> wrote:
Technically, this type of mill is called a "bed mill" versus a "knee mill" (like the oft mentioned Bridgeports but also larger and smaller knee mills).
If it is in good condition, and even if perhaps not so good, I would expect one of these to produce better results on their worst day than a mini-mill does on its best day.
The primary compromise I suspect most people think about with the "mill-drill" machines is that they are giving up.? And therefore, giving up a much larger work envelope.
I view the mini-mills as just small, weak, low power, low quality, versions of this style.? It is likely that once you have a decent one of these larger versions, you might want to usher your mini-mill out the door.
I think that is probably a long discontinued model, but that probably doesn't matter.? It is very likely that the spindle is R-8 which would be good.? Hopefully some tooling comes with it.
You can go to??to see their current array (which includes mini-mills) and find the closest match to see what a new one might cost retail today.
My bona fides with mills is that I actually DO have a mini-mill that, inexplicably, I find myself using a lot even though I swear at it some.? (Most recently from the locking levers stripping inside as the pot metal crystallized or something.? Little Machine Shop replacement handles to the rescue.)? I also have a Kao Fong knee mill of a medium size of the rotating head style such as the current Grizzly G0731.? At workplaces I have used Bridgeports, a similar Lagun, and a small Clausing 8520 (which makes for a REAL nice milling machine for a home shop.)? For MY home shop, I certainly looked at mill/drills pretty seriously back in the day but got a good deal on the knee mill as I bundled it with a purchase of a Shen-Wai 12x36 lathe.? (Mill and lathe from Taiwan.)? Otherwise, I would probably have bought a mill/drill as being "good enough."
Unless you really need a lot of vertical workpiece space, I think you would be happy with a decent mill/drill.
I know you have a larger lathe, so you know what it is like to use a truly decent machine.? I think many on this group don't know what that's like as mini-whatever's may be their only experience which can, for many, be discouraging at times.? A decent condition mill/drill (so long as NOT the mini-mill version) will give you that same experience of being able to focus on the workpiece and not frustrate with the foibles of a marginal machine.
Charles E. "Chuck" Kinzer??
? ??
On Tuesday, April 9, 2024 at 03:29:36 AM PDT, Miket_NYC < mctaglieri@...> wrote:
Monday night I was looking at the latest Home Shop Machinist and saw a cover story about someone making new dials for his Jet mill-drill so theyd look more like Bridgeport dials. (This involved designing a machine to engrave the new dials, designing another machine to resharpen carbide engraving tools to needle sharp points, etc. People in HSM often go overboard in cover articles, perhaps to get to be cover articles).
I paid little attention to the modification story, but I was intrigued by the mill-drill itself. I have a Harbor Freight mini-mill (the one with the tiltable column) that I bought in 2017. It's given me good service and I love using it for drilling, but its low power and small capacity have sometimes been a trial.
For example, when I was restoring my South Bend shaper, I had to make a new gib for the shaper ram out of phosphor bronze. The SB gib is a foot long, and that's the exact length of the table on the mini-mill. So milling the edges of the gib was a mess and cutting oil grooves in it was even worse. I had to keep unclamping the work and moving it on the table, because a one-foot table gives you much less then a foot of table TRAVEL, and a table as long as the work means you can't clamp it on both ends at the same time.?
The thing that saved me on that shaper gib job was that it works fine and will never be seen by human eyes until after I'm dead. But if that had been practically anything else, I would've has to scrap the part (probably several? times), in metal that cost $100/square foot.? Also, even on the lower speed setting, this mini-mill doesn’t have much power.
But the mill-drill in that story had twice as long a table and more capacity in every area,? plus a 2 HP motor. (With real American horses, not Chinese horses). So I looked on ebay to see what they sell for and discovered that the Grizzly equivalent is for sale right across the river in Brooklyn right now, for a used price similar to what I paid for my mini-mill in 2017.
What do people think of this? I know there's criticism of round-columned mill-drills because the head can move from side to side when changing height but I could figure out ways around that, and I'd much rather have that problem than to try to make something more rigid or more powerful then it was designed to be.
?I was originally hesitant about the weight of the thing since I lived by myself and drive a VW GTI. But it looks like it can break down into pieces, and I could make several trips.
I'm sick with a cold, so I'm not visiting the seller immediately, but probably will later this week.
Mike Taglieri?
|
Heres one they still currently sell with what looks like a
fancier switch box
Like I mentioned earlier these machines are sold by so many
different vendors with different paint colors . Some of them have
turned out some mighty fine work .
animal
On 4/11/24 9:56 AM, Charles Kinzer
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
You've probably already found
it on the Grizzly site.? They still show it, but as a
discontinued model (G1006) but the specs are all there.
I took a closer look at the
photos and noticed the collets underneath - nice.? But a
really small vise.? I suspect you will want to get a bigger
one.? Perhaps look to see if anything is laying around where
this is that belongs to it.? From the seller's other items
shown, it doesn't look like it is somebody really in the
machinery selling business.
One interesting thing is the
bolt loosening note written on the side of the machine with a
black marker.? I don't think it is likely that a private owner
would do that with one in his/her home.? So, this was probably
used in a shop somewhere.? And by more than one person.? It
has been my experience (and perhaps axiomatic throughout the
universe) that if something is used by multiple people, one or
more won't use it as if it were their own or even abuse it?
?So, the odds for issues increases.
Charles E. "Chuck" Kinzer
On Wednesday, April 10, 2024 at 04:48:47 AM PDT,
Miket_NYC <mctaglieri@...> wrote:
Thanks for this very helpful evaluation. I'm
hoping to go see it this week.
I think there's really a fundamental difference
between my mini-mill and mini-lathe.? I now have an
11" Logan lathe and it has a gearbox, so I do most
of my lathe work on that. But for small jobs and
specialized jobs, the minilathe is still useful. By
contrast, if there are things a mini-mill could do
better than a bigger and more rigid mill, I haven't
run across them yet.
Mike Taglieri?
On
Tue, Apr 9, 2024, 12:00 PM Charles Kinzer < ckinzer@...>
wrote:
Technically, this type of
mill is called a "bed mill" versus a "knee
mill" (like the oft mentioned Bridgeports
but also larger and smaller knee mills).
If it is in good condition,
and even if perhaps not so good, I would
expect one of these to produce better
results on their worst day than a
mini-mill does on its best day.
The primary compromise I
suspect most people think about with the
"mill-drill" machines is that they are
giving up.? And therefore, giving up a
much larger work envelope.
I view the mini-mills as just
small, weak, low power, low quality,
versions of this style.? It is likely that
once you have a decent one of these larger
versions, you might want to usher your
mini-mill out the door.
I think that is probably a
long discontinued model, but that probably
doesn't matter.? It is very likely that
the spindle is R-8 which would be good.?
Hopefully some tooling comes with it.
You can go to??to
see their current array (which includes
mini-mills) and find the closest match to
see what a new one might cost retail
today.
My bona fides with mills is
that I actually DO have a mini-mill that,
inexplicably, I find myself using a lot
even though I swear at it some.? (Most
recently from the locking levers stripping
inside as the pot metal crystallized or
something.? Little Machine Shop
replacement handles to the rescue.)? I
also have a Kao Fong knee mill of a medium
size of the rotating head style such as
the current Grizzly G0731.? At workplaces
I have used Bridgeports, a similar Lagun,
and a small Clausing 8520 (which makes for
a REAL nice milling machine for a home
shop.)? For MY home shop, I certainly
looked at mill/drills pretty seriously
back in the day but got a good deal on the
knee mill as I bundled it with a purchase
of a Shen-Wai 12x36 lathe.? (Mill and
lathe from Taiwan.)? Otherwise, I would
probably have bought a mill/drill as being
"good enough."
Unless you really need a lot
of vertical workpiece space, I think you
would be happy with a decent mill/drill.
I know you have a larger
lathe, so you know what it is like to use
a truly decent machine.? I think many on
this group don't know what that's like as
mini-whatever's may be their only
experience which can, for many, be
discouraging at times.? A decent condition
mill/drill (so long as NOT the mini-mill
version) will give you that same
experience of being able to focus on the
workpiece and not frustrate with the
foibles of a marginal machine.
Charles E. "Chuck" Kinzer??
? ??
On Tuesday, April 9, 2024 at
03:29:36 AM PDT, Miket_NYC < mctaglieri@...>
wrote:
Monday night I was looking at the
latest Home Shop Machinist and saw a
cover story about someone making new
dials for his Jet mill-drill so
theyd look more like Bridgeport
dials. (This involved designing a
machine to engrave the new dials,
designing another machine to
resharpen carbide engraving tools to
needle sharp points, etc. People in
HSM often go overboard in cover
articles, perhaps to get to be cover
articles).
I paid little attention to the
modification story, but I was
intrigued by the mill-drill
itself. I have a Harbor Freight
mini-mill (the one with the
tiltable column) that I bought in
2017. It's given me good service
and I love using it for drilling,
but its low power and small
capacity have sometimes been a
trial.
For example, when I was
restoring my South Bend
shaper, I had to make a new
gib for the shaper ram out of
phosphor bronze. The SB gib is
a foot long, and that's the
exact length of the table on
the mini-mill. So milling the
edges of the gib was a mess
and cutting oil grooves in it
was even worse. I had to keep
unclamping the work and moving
it on the table, because a
one-foot table gives you much
less then a foot of table
TRAVEL, and a table as long as
the work means you can't clamp
it on both ends at the same
time.?
The thing that saved me on
that shaper gib job was that
it works fine and will never
be seen by human eyes until
after I'm dead. But if that
had been practically anything
else, I would've has to scrap
the part (probably several?
times), in metal that cost
$100/square foot.? Also, even
on the lower speed setting,
this mini-mill doesn’t have
much power.
But the mill-drill in that
story had twice as long a
table and more capacity in
every area,? plus a 2 HP
motor. (With real American
horses, not Chinese horses).
So I looked on ebay to see
what they sell for and
discovered that the Grizzly
equivalent is for sale right
across the river in Brooklyn
right now, for a used price
similar to what I paid for my
mini-mill in 2017.
What do people think of
this? I know there's criticism
of round-columned mill-drills
because the head can move from
side to side when changing
height but I could figure out
ways around that, and I'd much
rather have that problem than
to try to make something more
rigid or more powerful then it
was designed to be.
?I was originally hesitant
about the weight of the thing
since I lived by myself and
drive a VW GTI. But it looks
like it can break down into
pieces, and I could make
several trips.
I'm sick with a cold, so
I'm not visiting the seller
immediately, but probably will
later this week.
Mike Taglieri?
|
I acquired a G1004 mill about45 years ago and had good success with iit. The only thing it won't do is nod the head up and down and slide the ram in and out. The only problems have been the spindle return spring wearing the shaft with a brass sleeve solving the problem and the soft brass?table feed nut wearing out! Over the years it has paid for itself several times over!? ?Bill
On Thu, Apr 11, 2024 at 12:14?PM mike allen < animal@...> wrote:
Heres one they still currently sell with what looks like a
fancier switch box
Like I mentioned earlier these machines are sold by so many
different vendors with different paint colors . Some of them have
turned out some mighty fine work .
animal
On 4/11/24 9:56 AM, Charles Kinzer
wrote:
You've probably already found
it on the Grizzly site.? They still show it, but as a
discontinued model (G1006) but the specs are all there.
I took a closer look at the
photos and noticed the collets underneath - nice.? But a
really small vise.? I suspect you will want to get a bigger
one.? Perhaps look to see if anything is laying around where
this is that belongs to it.? From the seller's other items
shown, it doesn't look like it is somebody really in the
machinery selling business.
One interesting thing is the
bolt loosening note written on the side of the machine with a
black marker.? I don't think it is likely that a private owner
would do that with one in his/her home.? So, this was probably
used in a shop somewhere.? And by more than one person.? It
has been my experience (and perhaps axiomatic throughout the
universe) that if something is used by multiple people, one or
more won't use it as if it were their own or even abuse it?
?So, the odds for issues increases.
Charles E. "Chuck" Kinzer
On Wednesday, April 10, 2024 at 04:48:47 AM PDT,
Miket_NYC <mctaglieri@...> wrote:
Thanks for this very helpful evaluation. I'm
hoping to go see it this week.
I think there's really a fundamental difference
between my mini-mill and mini-lathe.? I now have an
11" Logan lathe and it has a gearbox, so I do most
of my lathe work on that. But for small jobs and
specialized jobs, the minilathe is still useful. By
contrast, if there are things a mini-mill could do
better than a bigger and more rigid mill, I haven't
run across them yet.
Mike Taglieri?
On
Tue, Apr 9, 2024, 12:00 PM Charles Kinzer < ckinzer@...>
wrote:
Technically, this type of
mill is called a "bed mill" versus a "knee
mill" (like the oft mentioned Bridgeports
but also larger and smaller knee mills).
If it is in good condition,
and even if perhaps not so good, I would
expect one of these to produce better
results on their worst day than a
mini-mill does on its best day.
The primary compromise I
suspect most people think about with the
"mill-drill" machines is that they are
giving up.? And therefore, giving up a
much larger work envelope.
I view the mini-mills as just
small, weak, low power, low quality,
versions of this style.? It is likely that
once you have a decent one of these larger
versions, you might want to usher your
mini-mill out the door.
I think that is probably a
long discontinued model, but that probably
doesn't matter.? It is very likely that
the spindle is R-8 which would be good.?
Hopefully some tooling comes with it.
You can go to??to
see their current array (which includes
mini-mills) and find the closest match to
see what a new one might cost retail
today.
My bona fides with mills is
that I actually DO have a mini-mill that,
inexplicably, I find myself using a lot
even though I swear at it some.? (Most
recently from the locking levers stripping
inside as the pot metal crystallized or
something.? Little Machine Shop
replacement handles to the rescue.)? I
also have a Kao Fong knee mill of a medium
size of the rotating head style such as
the current Grizzly G0731.? At workplaces
I have used Bridgeports, a similar Lagun,
and a small Clausing 8520 (which makes for
a REAL nice milling machine for a home
shop.)? For MY home shop, I certainly
looked at mill/drills pretty seriously
back in the day but got a good deal on the
knee mill as I bundled it with a purchase
of a Shen-Wai 12x36 lathe.? (Mill and
lathe from Taiwan.)? Otherwise, I would
probably have bought a mill/drill as being
"good enough."
Unless you really need a lot
of vertical workpiece space, I think you
would be happy with a decent mill/drill.
I know you have a larger
lathe, so you know what it is like to use
a truly decent machine.? I think many on
this group don't know what that's like as
mini-whatever's may be their only
experience which can, for many, be
discouraging at times.? A decent condition
mill/drill (so long as NOT the mini-mill
version) will give you that same
experience of being able to focus on the
workpiece and not frustrate with the
foibles of a marginal machine.
Charles E. "Chuck" Kinzer??
? ??
On Tuesday, April 9, 2024 at
03:29:36 AM PDT, Miket_NYC < mctaglieri@...>
wrote:
Monday night I was looking at the
latest Home Shop Machinist and saw a
cover story about someone making new
dials for his Jet mill-drill so
theyd look more like Bridgeport
dials. (This involved designing a
machine to engrave the new dials,
designing another machine to
resharpen carbide engraving tools to
needle sharp points, etc. People in
HSM often go overboard in cover
articles, perhaps to get to be cover
articles).
I paid little attention to the
modification story, but I was
intrigued by the mill-drill
itself. I have a Harbor Freight
mini-mill (the one with the
tiltable column) that I bought in
2017. It's given me good service
and I love using it for drilling,
but its low power and small
capacity have sometimes been a
trial.
For example, when I was
restoring my South Bend
shaper, I had to make a new
gib for the shaper ram out of
phosphor bronze. The SB gib is
a foot long, and that's the
exact length of the table on
the mini-mill. So milling the
edges of the gib was a mess
and cutting oil grooves in it
was even worse. I had to keep
unclamping the work and moving
it on the table, because a
one-foot table gives you much
less then a foot of table
TRAVEL, and a table as long as
the work means you can't clamp
it on both ends at the same
time.?
The thing that saved me on
that shaper gib job was that
it works fine and will never
be seen by human eyes until
after I'm dead. But if that
had been practically anything
else, I would've has to scrap
the part (probably several?
times), in metal that cost
$100/square foot.? Also, even
on the lower speed setting,
this mini-mill doesn’t have
much power.
But the mill-drill in that
story had twice as long a
table and more capacity in
every area,? plus a 2 HP
motor. (With real American
horses, not Chinese horses).
So I looked on ebay to see
what they sell for and
discovered that the Grizzly
equivalent is for sale right
across the river in Brooklyn
right now, for a used price
similar to what I paid for my
mini-mill in 2017.
What do people think of
this? I know there's criticism
of round-columned mill-drills
because the head can move from
side to side when changing
height but I could figure out
ways around that, and I'd much
rather have that problem than
to try to make something more
rigid or more powerful then it
was designed to be.
?I was originally hesitant
about the weight of the thing
since I lived by myself and
drive a VW GTI. But it looks
like it can break down into
pieces, and I could make
several trips.
I'm sick with a cold, so
I'm not visiting the seller
immediately, but probably will
later this week.
Mike Taglieri?
|
On Thursday I bought this Grizzly G1006 mill-drill on ebay in Brooklyn for $1100.
I went to look at it and paid for it, but I haven't brought anything home but the vise.
The guy selling the mill owns a shop that does custom stationery engraving, with a staff of maybe half a dozen people. He said they're the largest custom engraving place on the East coast. They have gigantic engraving machines and other machinery throughout the shop, but there's no obvious need for a milling machine, so he may have gotten this one in trade and just wants to unload it.?
[They also have a 10" Atlas lathe for sale. I'll talk about that at the end].
I downloaded and printed out the owner's manual for the mill-drill Thursday night. Grizzly has two manuals online for this model, one for mills made before 9/09 and one for mills after, but lthe differences look just cosmetic. (Grizzly of course has newer mills than this, but this is all I need. And I paid more for my mini-mill in 2017!)
The controls are a little stiff, but there's no play anywhere (not even in the column height adjustment when the bolts were loose). I suspect a shot of WD-40 will solve the stiffness. Also, the left-hand crank handle of the table is missing. (That may have been because the power feed was fitted at some point).? I know big mills have two cranks for the X axis, but I've never quite understood why that's necessary. At any rate, that wouldn't be hard to replace.
The thing that impresses me most (and scares me a little) is the size of this thing. I expected something bigger than my mini-mill, but this makes the mini-mill look like a Lego toy.? And I'm planning to move it from Brooklyn to my basement shop in Staten Island by myself in my VW Golf.? This is not as daft as it sounds -- my shop has a ground level entrance in the back, and several years ago I bought a replacement bed for my 11" Logan lathe and moved that into the shop myself.?
Here's my plan for moving the mill. I'd love any comments, especially from people who've done this themselves. An exploded view of the column and table area is below. I think if I remove part 405-1, the Y axis leadscrew (and maybe 415-1, the nut for that leadscrew) I'd be able to slide the table and cross-slide off the Y axis dovetail, knocking off a lot of weight and bulk. Then if I remove the motor and the parts that stick out on the right side, I can flop the mill over on the right and safely separate the base and column from the head. (The seller has several husky employees that could probably help with this).? I'm hopeful the head by itself would weigh only 150 pounds or so.??
When I get the parts to my shop, I won't have husky employees to help me, but I will have an engine lift, which is how I got the replacement bed for my 11" Logan back up onto its stand.?
But this is all guesswork, and I have no idea how heavy the individual parts are. If anyone here has ever taken a mill-drill apart to move it, please tell me how you did it.
This mill is also big enough that I'll have to rearrange my shop. The mill is currently sitting on (not even bolted to) the stand you see in the ebay picture, which is how they've been using it for drilling. This is a rough construction wooden stand on wheels that's probably not worth keeping. But I have a 21"x27" Kennedy rolling tool cabinet in my shop that currently holds a drill press that I won't need when I get this mill set up. Years ago I removed the wheels from the Kennedy, but I still have them if needed (though I don't see the need for rolling around a milling machine, even though this one had apparently been on wheels).
I may have to make several trips, but they don't seem to be in any hurry for me to get it out of there.
----------------------
?ATLAS LATHE:?
The same shop also has an Atlas lathe they want to get rid of.? It looks about 10" and it has a gearbox. Below is a quick photo I took while the owner was giving me a tour of the place.
This lathe doesn't look like other Atlases I've seen. There's a cover that closes on the back-gear like a Logan, and the lathe has a V-way bed. (All rhe Atlases I've ever aeen, and all the ones pictured on have flat beds). This lathe also SEEMS to have steel gears on the outside of the gearbox (though I didn't test them with a magnet.
The seller hasn't put this on ebay yet but plans to. If anyone is interested let me know. Pickup only in Greenpoint, Brooklyn.?
Mike Taglieri?
|
|
|
I'm not sure this unit on a roll away box will move very easy .
Its in the 700 lb + neighborhood .? The top assembly head &
motor will come off the round column . Then ya can pull the column
off if needed though it may be helpful for some leverage if needed
.? The table comes off pretty easy . Is it a straight run where ya
unload to the shop ? One of the best things I bought recently was
one of those hydraulic table carts got it real cheap at a yard
sale . I just drug my mill-drill to the edge if the trailer &
then slid it on to the hydraulic cart . That big sheet metal belt
cover on the head bends kinda easy .
animal
On 4/12/24 1:18 AM, Miket_NYC wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Thursday I
bought this Grizzly G1006 mill-drill on ebay in
Brooklyn for $1100.
I went to look
at it and paid for it, but I haven't brought
anything home but the vise.
The guy selling
the mill owns a shop that does custom stationery
engraving, with a staff of maybe half a dozen
people. He said they're the largest custom engraving
place on the East coast. They have gigantic
engraving machines and other machinery throughout
the shop, but there's no obvious need for a milling
machine, so he may have gotten this one in trade and
just wants to unload it.?
[They also have
a 10" Atlas lathe for sale. I'll talk about that at
the end].
I downloaded and
printed out the owner's manual for the mill-drill
Thursday night. Grizzly has two manuals online for
this model, one for mills made before 9/09 and one
for mills after, but lthe differences look just
cosmetic. (Grizzly of course has newer mills than
this, but this is all I need. And I paid more for my
mini-mill in 2017!)
The controls are
a little stiff, but there's no play anywhere (not
even in the column height adjustment when the bolts
were loose). I suspect a shot of WD-40 will solve
the stiffness. Also, the left-hand crank handle of
the table is missing. (That may have been because
the power feed was fitted at some point).? I know
big mills have two cranks for the X axis, but I've
never quite understood why that's necessary. At any
rate, that wouldn't be hard to replace.
The thing that
impresses me most (and scares me a little) is the
size of this thing. I expected something bigger than
my mini-mill, but this makes the mini-mill look like
a Lego toy.? And I'm planning to move it from
Brooklyn to my basement shop in Staten Island by
myself in my VW Golf.? This is not as daft as it
sounds -- my shop has a ground level entrance in the
back, and several years ago I bought a replacement
bed for my 11" Logan lathe and moved that into the
shop myself.?
Here's my plan
for moving the mill. I'd love any comments,
especially from people who've done this
themselves. An exploded view of the column and
table area is below. I think if I remove part 405-1,
the Y axis leadscrew (and maybe 415-1, the nut for
that leadscrew) I'd be able to slide the table and
cross-slide off the Y axis dovetail, knocking off a
lot of weight and bulk. Then if I remove the motor
and the parts that stick out on the right side, I
can flop the mill over on the right and safely
separate the base and column from the head. (The
seller has several husky employees that could
probably help with this).? I'm hopeful the head by
itself would weigh only 150 pounds or so.??
When I get the
parts to my shop, I won't have husky employees to
help me, but I will have an engine lift, which is
how I got the replacement bed for my 11" Logan back
up onto its stand.?
But this is all
guesswork, and I have no idea how heavy the
individual parts are. If anyone here has ever taken
a mill-drill apart to move it, please tell me how
you did it.
This mill is
also big enough that I'll have to rearrange my shop.
The mill is currently sitting on (not even bolted
to) the stand you see in the ebay picture, which is
how they've been using it for drilling. This is a
rough construction wooden stand on wheels that's
probably not worth keeping. But I have a 21"x27"
Kennedy rolling tool cabinet in my shop that
currently holds a drill press that I won't need when
I get this mill set up. Years ago I removed the
wheels from the Kennedy, but I still have them if
needed (though I don't see the need for rolling
around a milling machine, even though this one had
apparently been on wheels).
I may have to
make several trips, but they don't seem to be in any
hurry for me to get it out of there.
----------------------
?ATLAS LATHE:?
The same shop
also has an Atlas lathe they want to get rid of.? It
looks about 10" and it has a gearbox. Below is a
quick photo I took while the owner was giving me a
tour of the place.
This lathe
doesn't look like other Atlases I've seen. There's a
cover that closes on the back-gear like a Logan, and
the lathe has a V-way bed. (All rhe Atlases I've
ever aeen, and all the ones pictured on
have flat beds). This lathe also SEEMS to have steel
gears on the outside of the gearbox (though I didn't
test them with a magnet.
The seller
hasn't put this on ebay yet but plans to. If anyone
is interested let me know. Pickup only in
Greenpoint, Brooklyn.?
Mike Taglieri?
Attachments:
|
davesmith1800
