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Hi Charles. When I did my engineering qualification at school, that was using Imperial measurement. Then started an Indentured apprenticeship with a Dutch company, so learnt metric, however, college was still Imperial. So I can get it wrong in both systems ? ?????? ????Ellis (UK) ? ? ? Actually, there are three countries still using the Imperial system:? The U.S., and also the industrial powerhouses of Myanmar and Liberia (both of whom are actively converting to metric). Regarding the inch marked metric threaded (1 mm per handwheel turn) 39.4 thousandths masquerading as 40 thousandths.? This makes each handwheel turn come up 0.0006 thousandths short...OK, so that's about a "half tenth" which is usually trivial in the mini lathe world, but multiple turns have a cumulative error. It always surprised me that more people didn't complain about that with their mini lathes.? But I got responses that people make final cuts to a measurement anyway and it didn't bother them.? And maybe if only working on smaller parts, they were depending on many, or any, full turns of the hand wheel to final cut. At least one mini lathe I saw long aga at least had the handwheels honestly marked.? Instead of 40 even divisions, it had 39 that DID represent one thousandth each and then smaller division just before you reached zero again to cover the 0.4 thousandths. On a mini-mill, I think it is much more of a liability.? You are often doing a lot of table travel (often by counting a fairly large number of turns) and that error per turn will add up to something often unacceptable. When I bought a Chinese mini-lathe and mini-mill many years ago just for fun (and ended up using them far more than I expected as I have larger machines) I got the Micro-Mark "True Inch" variety.? It seems Micro-Mark has some exclusive agreement with Sieg (who manufactures them) so that nobody else can sell them. I recall that Little Machine Shop at one time sold conversion kits to make your lathe or mill have truly inch based travel screws with new handwheels.? I don't know if they sell that anymore.? I looked a little and couldn't find it. For DRO's, I believe the answer to that, and almost any such question, is that there is no answer.? It depends on the person's needs or perhaps merely desires or available funds or even their eyesight. Charles E. "Chuck" Kinzer
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We will be dealing with Imperial system for hundreds of years.?
The Imperial?system is still in use in the UK in some places Less in Canada?
Most ball bearing are in metric?
As long ss I have a calculator metrics is easy.? Just remember 25.4 and life is easy.? I do not have any metric mics.?
The best way for machine work is match the mic to the lathe or mill so dials read the same.?
I just got my first metric lathe in November.?
Dave?
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The problem with metric is did not make a easy to use metric one inch or cup.?
If fix that problem ever one would go metric.?
You temp C can fix by just double the number and calling something else.?
Everyone likes 32? to 100 in metric it is 0 to 50 with ? ¡ãC just double the number so it is 0 to 100 and 200 is boiling.?
Dave?
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Show quoted text
?
Hi Charles. When I did my engineering qualification at school, that was using Imperial measurement. Then started an Indentured apprenticeship with a Dutch company, so learnt metric, however, college was still Imperial.
So I can get it wrong in both systems??
?????? ????Ellis (UK)
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Yes, but everything worldwide is made using metric measurements. 99/5% of the world population is educated using metric. The U.S. military uses metric. My cousin's daughter teaches high school chemistry?and says she spend 2-weeks teaching metric at the start of the school year. The United States is being really stupid in not changing?to metric. We started to change to metric but Regan killed the effort. Sorry for the minor political comment. John Mattis (retired mechanical?engineer)
We will be dealing with Imperial system for hundreds of years.?
The Imperial?system is still in use in the UK in some places Less in Canada?
Most ball bearing are in metric?
As long ss I have a calculator metrics is easy.? Just remember 25.4 and life is easy.? I do not have any metric mics.?
The best way for machine work is match the mic to the lathe or mill so dials read the same.?
I just got my first metric lathe in November.?
Dave?
|
I think we are mostly metric. Look at everything we get from china and other countries. Even stuff on automobiles are metric. So basically we actually use little sae compared to metric. Though my lathe is from micro mark with true inch, I still do stuff in metric. My mill is from lms with the funny inch system and I still do things in metric. If I could snd it was cheap enough I would make them both true metric. But for now the ability or cost would not be justified considering what I'm doing.
george
On Friday, December 22, 2023 at 09:20:34 AM PST, John Mattis <john.mattis@...> wrote:
Yes, but everything worldwide is made using metric measurements. 99/5% of the world population is educated using metric. The U.S. military uses metric. My cousin's daughter teaches high school chemistry?and says she spend 2-weeks teaching metric at the start of the school year. The United States is being really stupid in not changing?to metric. We started to change to metric but Regan killed the effort. Sorry for the minor political comment. John Mattis (retired mechanical?engineer)
We will be dealing with Imperial system for hundreds of years.?
The Imperial?system is still in use in the UK in some places Less in Canada?
Most ball bearing are in metric?
As long ss I have a calculator metrics is easy.? Just remember 25.4 and life is easy.? I do not have any metric mics.?
The best way for machine work is match the mic to the lathe or mill so dials read the same.?
I just got my first metric lathe in November.?
Dave?
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To me it just a number on the page.?
I work with both
Dave?
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Ford Chevy , Coors Bud ..... My new to me Enco 11x20 has 2 scales
on each hand wheel for the cross & compound slide . I'm not
setup with yet so I don't know what each dial means? yet .
I think for most hobbyist's the functions on a dro on? a lathe
don't get looked at much furthur than the travel function . On a
mill there's a few more that most folks would use besides just the
travel? Like the bolt circle for one .
animal
On 12/22/23 7:45 AM, Charles Kinzer
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Actually, there are three
countries still using the Imperial system:? The U.S., and also
the industrial powerhouses of Myanmar and Liberia (both of
whom are actively converting to metric).
Regarding the inch marked
metric threaded (1 mm per handwheel turn) 39.4 thousandths
masquerading as 40 thousandths.? This makes each handwheel
turn come up 0.0006 thousandths short...OK, so that's about a
"half tenth" which is usually trivial in the mini lathe world,
but multiple turns have a cumulative error.
It always surprised me that
more people didn't complain about that with their mini
lathes.? But I got responses that people make final cuts to a
measurement anyway and it didn't bother them.? And maybe if
only working on smaller parts, they were depending on many, or
any, full turns of the hand wheel to final cut.
At least one mini lathe I saw
long aga at least had the handwheels honestly marked.? Instead
of 40 even divisions, it had 39 that DID represent one
thousandth each and then smaller division just before you
reached zero again to cover the 0.4 thousandths.
On a mini-mill, I think it is
much more of a liability.? You are often doing a lot of table
travel (often by counting a fairly large number of turns) and
that error per turn will add up to something often
unacceptable.
When I bought a Chinese
mini-lathe and mini-mill many years ago just for fun (and
ended up using them far more than I expected as I have larger
machines) I got the Micro-Mark "True Inch" variety.? It seems
Micro-Mark has some exclusive agreement with Sieg (who
manufactures them) so that nobody else can sell them.
I recall that Little Machine
Shop at one time sold conversion kits to make your lathe or
mill have truly inch based travel screws with new handwheels.?
I don't know if they sell that anymore.? I looked a little and
couldn't find it.
For DRO's, I believe the
answer to that, and almost any such question, is that there is
no answer.? It depends on the person's needs or perhaps merely
desires or available funds or even their eyesight.
Charles E. "Chuck" Kinzer
On Friday, December 22, 2023 at 07:01:06 AM PST,
Miket_NYC <mctaglieri@...> wrote:
DROs aren't worth the money and trouble to me. I
use a dial indicator with a magnetic back on my
mini-lathe, my my 11" Logan lathe, and the Z axis of
my mini-mill. Not as pretty or cool-looking as a DRO,
but I can move it around as needed.
For the mini-mill's X travel, I have a 2" travel
dial indicator (The calibration for the X travel of
the Imperial mini-mill is ridiculous. It has a
16-tpi leadscrew, which requires a fractional number
of thousandths on the dial. The factory in China
maybe figured Americans were too stupid to notice,
and since we're the only country that still uses the
Imperial system, maybe we are. I wish I had bought a
metric mini-mill.
Finally, I like the 2" travel indicator on the
mini-mill so much that I now wish the magnetic dial
indicator I move around on the lathes and the mill
was also 2", but?it's just 1". Maybe 2023 is time to
change that.?
Mike Taglieri?
A DRO is much more useful on a mill
than on a lathe. ? What makes them great compared
to the numbers on the hand wheel is that the DRO
has no backlash.? It shows the real location of
the axis.? The other good feature they all have is
a zero-reset.? If you need to move (say) 10 mm
from current location, then set to zero and ?turn
the handle until the DRO read ¡°10.00¡±. ?
I used screws to mount them but as it turns
out tonight I¡¯m ordering some powerful magnets
for another project and I¡¯m thinking how easy it
would be to use CA glue to put the magnet on the
DRO and magnetically mount the DRO.
[Edited Message Follows]
When DRO is working they great.
I had a set on a Bridgeport for 20 years.
They work great but the rest mills I had
did not have DRO'S and still used them
without any problems.?
When work as a Journeyman Machinist I
would go into shop and DRO's work haft the
time as you use the tool.
I finely got set I move from tool to tool
if need.?
They are wonderful if treat with care.
Dave
FYI?
I have a set of Shars in my tool box since
2009.
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I think the bottom line is here in the US we're already metric
for the most part , we just don't know it yet .
There are dials I've seen online that have a bore that can be
opened up to slip over existing dials . Now finding one that
duplicates what the screws are doing could ba a horse of a
different color .
animal
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I think we are mostly metric. Look at everything we get
from china and other countries. Even stuff on automobiles are
metric. So basically we actually use little sae compared to
metric. Though my lathe is from micro mark with true inch, I
still do stuff in metric. My mill is from lms with the funny
inch system and I still do things in metric. If I could snd it
was cheap enough I would make them both true metric. But for
now the ability or cost would not be justified considering
what I'm doing.
george
On Friday, December 22, 2023 at 09:20:34 AM PST, John
Mattis <john.mattis@...> wrote:
Yes,
but everything worldwide is made using metric
measurements.
99/5%
of the world population is educated using metric.
The
U.S. military uses metric.
My
cousin's daughter teaches high school
chemistry?and says she spend 2-weeks teaching
metric at the start of the school year.
The
United States is being really stupid in not
changing?to metric.
We
started to change to metric but Regan killed the
effort.
Sorry
for the minor political comment.
John
Mattis (retired mechanical?engineer)
We
will be dealing with Imperial system for hundreds
of years.?
The Imperial?system is still in use in the UK in
some places Less in Canada?
Most ball bearing are in metric?
As long ss I have a calculator metrics is easy.?
Just remember 25.4 and life is easy.? I do not
have any metric mics.?
The best way for machine work is match the mic to
the lathe or mill so dials read the same.?
I just got my first metric lathe in November.?
Dave?
|
Hi UK went metric in 1972, but lingered awhile after that, I had to revert back when I moved to US.? ? Merry Christmas and a happy new year, and may all your pressys be useful.
On Friday, December 22, 2023 at 10:09:03 AM MST, davesmith1800 <davesmith1@...> wrote:
We will be dealing with Imperial system for hundreds of years.?
The Imperial?system is still in use in the UK in some places Less in Canada?
Most ball bearing are in metric?
As long ss I have a calculator metrics is easy.? Just remember 25.4 and life is easy.? I do not have any metric mics.?
The best way for machine work is match the mic to the lathe or mill so dials read the same.?
I just got my first metric lathe in November.?
Dave?
|
I don't care which numeric system is on a part - or an a drawing.? Both of my machines (lathe & mil) have 16 tpi lead screws on all axes, so each turn is 0.0625" or 15.875mm. I can deal with that.? I don't really use the graduations on the hand wheels are - I only use them to move quickly to the place on the work and then measure from a surface from there, e it with with a vernier, dial indicator or a micrometer.
I don't have any DROs yet, but I think that they would be very advantageous on all axes (s, y & z) on both machines.? And, the readouts can easily switch from Imperial to metric and vice versa.? Someday, I will incorporate them, but as I am in the middle of moving everything from home in the High Sierras of California to my new location in the Bitterroot Valley of Montana.
Anyone work in footlongs/fortnight?
ralphie
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Like others here have already stated, dial indicators are a great way to go, reliable and cheap.
I bought the Micro-Mark "true-inch" lathe and am happy to have it. I bought the mini-mill from LMS and, like Mike T pointed out, the dials were unusable. Eventually I converted it to metric and am very glad I did. It was easy to do and didn't cost too much, but would have been better to just start off that way.
The result is that I have an imperial lathe and a metric mill which means I'm constantly switching between the two. But considering digital measuring tools can switch between the two also, that and a conversion app on the phone, and it's not really a problem at all.
Building small scale live steam locos, many of plans mix metric and imperial right in the drawings. In fact, the scale I mostly work in is 16mm/1ft, so it's kind of "baked in" already.
Someday, I'll outfit the mill with DRO's. Setting reference points for things like bolts patterns, etc., seems like it would be very handy. Having to count turns can be tedious, especially if you lose track and have to start over! So far, I've managed without and do just fine.
Kurt Severson
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Other Ralph, re?
on all axes (s, y & z)? What is your s axes?
Ralph
On Fri, Dec 22, 2023 at 7:22?PM plumbfishy via <seversonplumbing= [email protected]> wrote: Like others here have already stated, dial indicators are a great way to go, reliable and cheap.
I bought the Micro-Mark "true-inch" lathe and am happy to have it. I bought the mini-mill from LMS and, like Mike T pointed out, the dials were unusable. Eventually I converted it to metric and am very glad I did. It was easy to do and didn't cost too much, but would have been better to just start off that way.
The result is that I have an imperial lathe and a metric mill which means I'm constantly switching between the two. But considering digital measuring tools can switch between the two also, that and a conversion app on the phone, and it's not really a problem at all.
Building small scale live steam locos, many of plans mix metric and imperial right in the drawings. In fact, the scale I mostly work in is 16mm/1ft, so it's kind of "baked in" already.
Someday, I'll outfit the mill with DRO's. Setting reference points for things like bolts patterns, etc., seems like it would be very handy. Having to count turns can be tedious, especially if you lose track and have to start over! So far, I've managed without and do just fine.
Kurt Severson
|
The wine must be taking effect - haha.? The x-axis is sauvignon blanc.
x, y, & z
thanks, ralphie
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Try this I have work with design using ball bearing.? I quickly noticed metric ball bearing dating back to 1930s was right size to machine off a little inch bar stock.?
Before 1960 they change the inch to comfort to metric or 25.4. So have a old machine tool or mic Before 1960 it is on a different standard.?
Just try standard clutch bearing in most cars trucks uses a 6203 ball bearing.? If you have a reel lawnmower it used 6203 ball bearing.??
Where see different is threading more and more uses metric threads . Metric threading with threading dial need different gears .?
Try lumber buying a 2x4 it is not 2" x 4" it just a number?
Like said before it is just a number.?
Dave?
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Veering briefly off topic, but since you mentioned the 2 x 4, the size of "dimensional" lumber has a very complex history in the U.S.? It was evolutionary changes to the standards arriving at where we are now.? And there were times when not all of the country had the same standards.? There are complexities in the evolution related to the requirement to plane all four sides, when this occurred related to when wood dried, and even different opinions on how different types of wood would be handled and the impacts on strength.? There is enough reading material about this history to make your eyes bleed.? Like this document:
On the metric versus Imperial, a company I was at contemplated making a wholesale changeover so it would be easier to have things manufactured elsewhere.? it isn't just hole sizes and threads, but also nominal dimensions of various rods, bars, tubing, and sheet thicknesses.? At the time (about 20 years ago) it turned out to be too costly of a changeover for the company.? Of course, the "corporate inertia" of some in the company also played a role.
On a funnier note, I once worked with a machinist who just HATED the metric system.? His reason was that so many dimensions had all these odd digits below the decimal point.? But that was because he was working to drawings designed in Imperial that were later converted to metric.? And that seldom produces many round numbers.? Things designed natively in metric are a different story.
Charles E. "Chuck" Kinzer
On Friday, December 22, 2023 at 06:46:29 PM PST, davesmith1800 <davesmith1@...> wrote:
Try this I have work with design using ball bearing.? I quickly noticed metric ball bearing dating back to 1930s was right size to machine off a little inch bar stock.?
Before 1960 they change the inch to comfort to metric or 25.4. So have a old machine tool or mic Before 1960 it is on a different standard.?
Just try standard clutch bearing in most cars trucks uses a 6203 ball bearing.? If you have a reel lawnmower it used 6203 ball bearing.??
Where see different is threading more and more uses metric threads . Metric threading with threading dial need different gears .?
Try lumber buying a 2x4 it is not 2" x 4" it just a number?
Like said before it is just a number.?
Dave?
|
May be a number but my old house was built with actual 2x4's.measured them.
george
On Friday, December 22, 2023 at 06:46:29 PM PST, davesmith1800 <davesmith1@...> wrote:
Try this I have work with design using ball bearing.? I quickly noticed metric ball bearing dating back to 1930s was right size to machine off a little inch bar stock.?
Before 1960 they change the inch to comfort to metric or 25.4. So have a old machine tool or mic Before 1960 it is on a different standard.?
Just try standard clutch bearing in most cars trucks uses a 6203 ball bearing.? If you have a reel lawnmower it used 6203 ball bearing.??
Where see different is threading more and more uses metric threads . Metric threading with threading dial need different gears .?
Try lumber buying a 2x4 it is not 2" x 4" it just a number?
Like said before it is just a number.?
Dave?
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On Thu, 21 Dec 2023, chrisser via groups.io wrote:
I've been looking at DROs again.? Seems I go through this exercise every six months or so.
Wanted to bounce off the conclusion I always seem to come to and see if you guys have a different opinion.
so mr chrisser what is your conclusion
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Can be a pain to work some older homes with real 2x4 new do not fit right.?
I also run cross 1? x 3? too.?
I do not just live or else where.?
Dave?
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I would hope so.? I took chemistry and physics in high school 60 years ago and we used the metric system.? I taught a medical electronics class in junior college about 40 years ago, and spent a week or so teaching the metric system to those students. ? Jerry F.? ?
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John Mattis
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2023 9:20 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [7x12MiniLathe] Are DROs worth the money/trouble? Yes, but everything worldwide is made using metric measurements. 99/5% of the world population is educated using metric. The U.S. military uses metric. My cousin's daughter teaches high school chemistry?and says she spend 2-weeks teaching metric at the start of the school year. The United States is being really stupid in not changing?to metric. We started to change to metric but Regan killed the effort. Sorry for the minor political comment. John Mattis (retired mechanical?engineer) ? We will be dealing with Imperial system for hundreds of years.?
The Imperial?system is still in use in the UK in some places Less in Canada?
Most ball bearing are in metric?
As long ss I have a calculator metrics is easy.? Just remember 25.4 and life is easy.? I do not have any metric mics.?
The best way for machine work is match the mic to the lathe or mill so dials read the same.?
I just got my first metric lathe in November.?
Dave?
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davesmith1800
John Mattis
Ralph Lehotsky