#119579

Sorry to here?
Arc welds do that .
It wax $0.15 part and a fuse in TV and hours fun replacing the part.

Dave?

On Fri, May 17, 2024 at 10:58 AM, mike allen wrote:

A bud of mine got one of those new fancy lincoln tig welders @ half the size of a refrigerator . First time he used it took out his relatively? new large screen tv . He later found there was a disclaimer in the manual somewhere

animal

On 5/17/24 8:09 AM, davesmith1800 wrote:

I do not know?
There not that old so most homes would have one.

I have the part you need to replace in electronics.??
It is a real pain when one blows. I have only had happen one time in my life back in 1980's and RadioShack had part on the shelf.
5 hours later was up running again and a spare one.??

Today I like the power strip with built in protection.? If it dieds then grab on off shelf and 5 minutes later up and running again.?

FYI? If do a lot welding it can also happen to your electronics.?

Dave?

On Thu, May 16, 2024 at 09:49 PM, mike allen wrote:

Are those whole house units still only one use ?

animal

On 5/16/24 9:41 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:

The “best”? ?The latest electric code (here in the US, the NEC) has taken all the fun out of this. ?All new service entrance panels are required to have “Whole House” surge protection. ?This only applies to newly installed panels in new construction or retrofit. ?But if you are going to worry about protecting stuff, you might as well just do it once
?

These devices are easy to install into an old panel and because they are required, they are available “everywhere”. ? ?Just put one of these in and be done with it and it will cover your TV, computer, power tools, car charger, and whatever.

?

There are two basic kinds, one snaps in like a larger size 220 volt circuit breaker and the other screws into a knockout.

?

OK, but you really wanted a AC-DC-AC system. ?You might be in luck because that is how all brushless motors work. ? There is one of those inside the lathe already if you have a brushless motor

?

But if I am not mistaken, I think all mini lathes use PWM to control the motor. ?If so, then you already have a kind of AC-DC-AC system in from of the lathe's motor.

?

?

On May 16, 2024, at 8:19?PM, Johannes via groups.io <johannes@...> wrote:

What is the best AC protector/stabilator for a 7x14 lathe?

There are many types: one for your computer, one for your fridge.

Full AC-DC-AC is maybe a littlebit luxury?

?

/johannes

?

?

?

On Thu, May 16, 2024 at 09:49 PM, mike allen wrote:

Are those whole house units still only one use ?

animal

On 5/16/24 9:41 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:

The “best”? ?The latest electric code (here in the US, the NEC) has taken all the fun out of this. ?All new service entrance panels are required to have “Whole House” surge protection. ?This only applies to newly installed panels in new construction or retrofit. ?But if you are going to worry about protecting stuff, you might as well just do it once
?

These devices are easy to install into an old panel and because they are required, they are available “everywhere”. ? ?Just put one of these in and be done with it and it will cover your TV, computer, power tools, car charger, and whatever.

?

There are two basic kinds, one snaps in like a larger size 220 volt circuit breaker and the other screws into a knockout.

?

OK, but you really wanted a AC-DC-AC system. ?You might be in luck because that is how all brushless motors work. ? There is one of those inside the lathe already if you have a brushless motor

?

But if I am not mistaken, I think all mini lathes use PWM to control the motor. ?If so, then you already have a kind of AC-DC-AC system in from of the lathe's motor.

?

?

On May 16, 2024, at 8:19?PM, Johannes via groups.io <johannes@...> wrote:

What is the best AC protector/stabilator for a 7x14 lathe?

There are many types: one for your computer, one for your fridge.

Full AC-DC-AC is maybe a littlebit luxury?

?

/johannes

?

?

#119580

That Square D unit is a MOV device and whether it is single use or so is dependant on the surge it handled. There is a lamp on the from which will indicate it must be replaced as the MOVs are shot.

I spent a lot of time working on surge protection in a prior life and _all_ MOV (Metal Oxide Varistor) devices will have a lifetime based on the number of surges it has handled. The more and the higher the surges, the shorter the life.

We ended up using a different device:

They are not cheap, but we were installing them in places where we had lots of lightning and we had cameras up on metal poles. Just the voltage gradient of the storm cloud was enough to blow up equipment and a strike was enhanced because we had metal poles 30ft into the air.

MOV suppressors lasted only partially through a storm and then you had to buy a new one and sometimes replace the gear on the pole. The Brick Wall units lasted for years and we didn't ever have a failure from them.

HOWEVER, it you want to protect your lathe or mill or any other shop equipment, a power strip with MOVs will usually and reliably do the job. And, I like that it has a dedicated switch which makes me have an extra step to make sure I have started up safely.

On Fri, May 17, 2024 at 11:41?AM Chris Albertson via <albertson.chris=[email protected]> wrote:

Show quoted text

On May 16, 2024, at 9:49?PM, mike allen via <animal=[email protected]> wrote:

Are those whole house units still only one use ?

One use? ? You mean like a fuse? ? No.? They come with some kind of warranty but likely last forever. ? Link below is to a brand sold at Home Depot.? It is the plug-in kind and only works with their brand. ? ?Every brand has these and installation is trivial if you have space in the panel.? Oh, notice the “replace” light. ? I guess it is concievable it might go on after just one direct hit by lightening but more likey it will live in the panel for 30 or 50 years.

The OTHER thing that is now required is “combined GFCI arc-fault breakers". ? People hate them because of nuisance trips.? They cost $100 each and you might need a couple dozen of them. if you are putting in a pen panel.? They add $1,000 to a typical job. ? But there is no possible way to ever have an electrical fire or electrocution.? So they are worth the added $1K.

As long as we are at it.? In Calif. all new contruction must have solar panels on the roof.

animal

On 5/16/24 9:41 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:

The “best”?? The latest electric code (here in the US, the NEC) has taken all the fun out of this.? All new service entrance panels are required to have “Whole House” surge protection.? This only applies to newly installed panels in new construction or retrofit.? But if you are going to worry about protecting stuff, you might as well just do it once

These devices are easy to install into an old panel and because they are required, they are available “everywhere”. ? ?Just put one of these in and be done with it and it will cover your TV, computer, power tools, car charger, and whatever.

There are two basic kinds, one snaps in like a larger size 220 volt circuit breaker and the other screws into a knockout.

OK, but you really wanted a AC-DC-AC system.? You might be in luck because that is how all brushless motors work. ? There is one of those inside the lathe already if you have a brushless motor

But if I am not mistaken, I think all mini lathes use PWM to control the motor.? If so, then you already have a kind of AC-DC-AC system in from of the lathe's motor.

On May 16, 2024, at 8:19?PM, Johannes via <johannes@...> wrote:

What is the best AC protector/stabilator for a 7x14 lathe?

There are many types: one for your computer, one for your fridge.

Full AC-DC-AC is maybe a littlebit luxury?

/johannes

#119581

Looks like plugs in every time to place it by a electrician.?
20 years ago that cost $160.00 and hard wire.?
At less price is coming down.?

More pain?
It does not protect against welders only what come from power pole.?

I will stick power strip for my mini lathe.?

The new home cost of solar adds $10,000 per news

Dave?

Show quoted text

On Fri, May 17, 2024 at 11:41 AM, Chris Albertson wrote:

On May 16, 2024, at 9:49?PM, mike allen via groups.io <animal@...> wrote:

Are those whole house units still only one use ?

?
One use? ? You mean like a fuse? ? No. ?They come with some kind of warranty but likely last forever. ? Link below is to a brand sold at Home Depot. ?It is the plug-in kind and only works with their brand. ? ?Every brand has these and installation is trivial if you have space in the panel. ?Oh, notice the “replace” light. ? I guess it is concievable it might go on after just one direct hit by lightening but more likey it will live in the panel for 30 or 50 years.

?

The OTHER thing that is now required is “combined GFCI arc-fault breakers". ? People hate them because of nuisance trips. ?They cost $100 each and you might need a couple dozen of them. if you are putting in a pen panel. ?They add $1,000 to a typical job. ? But there is no possible way to ever have an electrical fire or electrocution. ?So they are worth the added $1K.

?

As long as we are at it. ?In Calif. all new contruction must have solar panels on the roof.

?

?

animal

On 5/16/24 9:41 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:

The “best”? ?The latest electric code (here in the US, the NEC) has taken all the fun out of this. ?All new service entrance panels are required to have “Whole House” surge protection. ?This only applies to newly installed panels in new construction or retrofit. ?But if you are going to worry about protecting stuff, you might as well just do it once
?

These devices are easy to install into an old panel and because they are required, they are available “everywhere”. ? ?Just put one of these in and be done with it and it will cover your TV, computer, power tools, car charger, and whatever.

?

There are two basic kinds, one snaps in like a larger size 220 volt circuit breaker and the other screws into a knockout.

?

OK, but you really wanted a AC-DC-AC system. ?You might be in luck because that is how all brushless motors work. ? There is one of those inside the lathe already if you have a brushless motor

?

But if I am not mistaken, I think all mini lathes use PWM to control the motor. ?If so, then you already have a kind of AC-DC-AC system in from of the lathe's motor.

?

?

On May 16, 2024, at 8:19?PM, Johannes via groups.io <johannes@...> wrote:

What is the best AC protector/stabilator for a 7x14 lathe?

There are many types: one for your computer, one for your fridge.

Full AC-DC-AC is maybe a littlebit luxury?

?

/johannes

?

?

#119582

I look it up just like a power strip. One time use like a fuse.?
You can see light to till you to replace.??

In electronics it was call a thyristor
Maybe miss spell.??

RadioShack wack me $15.00 each back 1980's.? But I found at some supply places in bag of 100 about $15.00

Dave?

#119583

Not the electronic thyristor?
The one I am? talking about looks like a capacitor anx only has two wires.?
It spell almost same as a thyristor witch is a type SCR.?

Dave?

#119584

Found the name varistor.
I was little I hope mini lathe has one or just power strip in is easier to replace.

A varistor (a.k.a. voltage-dependent resistor (VDR)) is a surge protecting electronic component with an electrical resistance that varies with the applied voltage.[2] It has a nonlinear, non-ohmic current–voltage characteristic that is similar to that of a diode. Unlike a diode however, it has the same characteristic for both directions of traversing current. Traditionally, varistors were indeed constructed by connecting two rectifiers, such as the copper-oxide or germanium-oxide rectifier in antiparallel configuration. At low voltage the varistor has a high electrical resistance which decreases as the voltage is raised. Modern varistors are primarily based on sintered ceramic metal-oxide materials which exhibit directional behavior only on a microscopic scale. This type is commonly known as the metal-oxide varistor (MOV).

?

Metal-oxide varistor manufactured by Siemens & Halske AG.

#119585

Yes, like I wrote earlier, that is a MOV - Metal Oxide Varistor and they have either two or three leads. The ones with three leads can be used to indicate when the MOV has blown. The ones with two leads are a crapshoot if they are still good, depends how they failed.

Most surge suppressors use MOVs. The biggest problem with MOVs is that the clamping voltage is really high. A MOV with an AC working voltage of 130VAC has a clamping voltage of over 350V, so you can still blow the electronics out.

Show quoted text

On Fri, May 17, 2024 at 2:21?PM davesmith1800 via <davesmith1=[email protected]> wrote:

Found the name varistor.
I was little I hope mini lathe has one or just power strip in is easier to replace.

A varistor (a.k.a. voltage-dependent resistor (VDR)) is a surge protecting electronic component with an electrical resistance that varies with the applied voltage.[2] It has a nonlinear, non-ohmic current–voltage characteristic that is similar to that of a diode. Unlike a diode however, it has the same characteristic for both directions of traversing current. Traditionally, varistors were indeed constructed by connecting two rectifiers, such as the copper-oxide or germanium-oxide rectifier in antiparallel configuration. At low voltage the varistor has a high electrical resistance which decreases as the voltage is raised. Modern varistors are primarily based on sintered ceramic metal-oxide materials which exhibit directional behavior only on a microscopic scale. This type is commonly known as the metal-oxide varistor (MOV).
?

?

Metal-oxide varistor manufactured by Siemens & Halske AG.

--
Buffalo John

Chris Albertson

#119586

开云体育

On May 17, 2024, at 1:41?PM, davesmith1800 via groups.io <davesmith1@...> wrote:

Looks like plugs in every time to place it by a electrician.?
20 years ago that cost $160.00 and hard wire.?
At less price is coming down.?

More pain?
It does not protect against welders only what come from power pole.?

I will stick power strip for my mini lathe.?

The new home cost of solar adds $10,000 per news

Pocket-change in California. ? Broker commision is $50K and taxes are $30K per year. ? ?

?Ther are no new homes for under $1M, and very hard to find for under $1.5M. ?But still they sell very fast as there are an unlimited number of buyers who can afford it or more. ?Near me by the beach, 3X to 5X higher. ??

Then that $10K upfront investment saves you $100 per month on the electric bill, that is a fast payback and then for the next 15 years you make $100/month profit. ? Most people will opt for a larger system and spend closer to 20K so most of their electric bill is covered.

About what is covered? ?A surge protector is wired in PARALLEL to all house wires. ?It is not wired in series. ? So YES, it DOES protect against internally generated surges. ?In fact, placing a 200A protection in your panel box would offer some protection to neighbors who share the same utility pole transformer. ?(limited by resistance in the wires). The device clamps the rails in the box to some maximum voltage. ?It would 100% certain stop the surge from jumping across branch circuits

Dave?

On Fri, May 17, 2024 at 11:41 AM, Chris Albertson wrote:

On May 16, 2024, at 9:49?PM, mike allen via groups.io <animal@...> wrote:

Are those whole house units still only one use ?

?
One use? ? You mean like a fuse? ? No. ?They come with some kind of warranty but likely last forever. ? Link below is to a brand sold at Home Depot. ?It is the plug-in kind and only works with their brand. ? ?Every brand has these and installation is trivial if you have space in the panel. ?Oh, notice the “replace” light. ? I guess it is concievable it might go on after just one direct hit by lightening but more likey it will live in the panel for 30 or 50 years.

?

The OTHER thing that is now required is “combined GFCI arc-fault breakers". ? People hate them because of nuisance trips. ?They cost $100 each and you might need a couple dozen of them. if you are putting in a pen panel. ?They add $1,000 to a typical job. ? But there is no possible way to ever have an electrical fire or electrocution. ?So they are worth the added $1K.

?

As long as we are at it. ?In Calif. all new contruction must have solar panels on the roof.

?

?

animal

On 5/16/24 9:41 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:

The “best”? ?The latest electric code (here in the US, the NEC) has taken all the fun out of this. ?All new service entrance panels are required to have “Whole House” surge protection. ?This only applies to newly installed panels in new construction or retrofit. ?But if you are going to worry about protecting stuff, you might as well just do it once
?

These devices are easy to install into an old panel and because they are required, they are available “everywhere”. ? ?Just put one of these in and be done with it and it will cover your TV, computer, power tools, car charger, and whatever.

?

There are two basic kinds, one snaps in like a larger size 220 volt circuit breaker and the other screws into a knockout.

?

OK, but you really wanted a AC-DC-AC system. ?You might be in luck because that is how all brushless motors work. ? There is one of those inside the lathe already if you have a brushless motor

?

But if I am not mistaken, I think all mini lathes use PWM to control the motor. ?If so, then you already have a kind of AC-DC-AC system in from of the lathe's motor.

?

?

On May 16, 2024, at 8:19?PM, Johannes via groups.io <johannes@...> wrote:

What is the best AC protector/stabilator for a 7x14 lathe?

There are many types: one for your computer, one for your fridge.

Full AC-DC-AC is maybe a littlebit luxury?

?

/johannes

?

?

#119587

I do buy them often and I only new two wire.

Dave?

#119588

开云体育

Reminds me of a great Casey Stengel-ism “No one goes there any more, it’s too crowded”

I was actually just reading an Washington Post article about how the California grid operators have the problem that they’re getting too much power back from all the household solar that’s installed. Free gift link??

There’s a bunch of different technologies coming online to capture and store that excess energy, but they haven’t caught up yet.

Stuff like Iron-Air batteries??, and pumped storage hydro?

Those iron air batteries are described as ’the size of a washer-dryer ‘ combo; I wonder how much power they hold? That’s a size that could conceivably work, space-wise to take a home off the grid, coupled with panels on the roof. ?

On May 17, 2024, at 3:13 PM, Chris Albertson via groups.io <albertson.chris@...> wrote:

Pocket-change in California. ? Broker commision is $50K and taxes are $30K per year. ? ?
?Ther are no new homes for under $1M, and very hard to find for under $1.5M. ?But still they sell very fast as there are an unlimited number of buyers who can afford it or more. ?Near me by the beach, 3X to 5X higher. ??

Then that $10K upfront investment saves you $100 per month on the electric bill, that is a fast payback and then for the next 15 years you make $100/month profit. ? Most people will opt for a larger system and spend closer to 20K so most of their electric bill is covered.

--?
Bruce Johnson

The less a man knows about how sausages and laws are made, the easier it is to steal his vote and give him botulism.

#119589

开云体育

that bag of 100 probably came over a ocean to get to ya . Shit that I need to be able to count on I prefer that it ca,e from the island of USA . I don't think that ya can honestly test a system which ya replaced a thyristor without a Hi-pot machine ? Or maybe ya can .?

??? That pumped storage hydro sounds like a pretty darn? good setup ! Thanks for the link .

??? animal

On 5/17/24 2:01 PM, davesmith1800 wrote:

Show quoted text

I look it up just like a power strip. One time use like a fuse.?
You can see light to till you to replace.??

In electronics it was call a thyristor
Maybe miss spell.??

RadioShack wack me $15.00 each back 1980's.? But I found at some supply places in bag of 100 about $15.00

Dave?

#119590

开云体育

??? ??? MOV ?

??? animal

On 5/17/24 2:07 PM, davesmith1800 wrote:

Show quoted text

Not the electronic thyristor?
The one I am? talking about looks like a capacitor anx only has two wires.?
It spell almost same as a thyristor witch is a type SCR.?

Dave?

#119591
Edited

Metal-Oxide Varistor or (MOV).

?This typical found on board of motor controller of your mini lathe or other electronics like DRO'S?

Even TVS?

?

DaveOn Fri, May 17, 2024 at 07:32 PM, mike allen wrote:

Show quoted text

??? ??? MOV ?

??? animal

On 5/17/24 2:07 PM, davesmith1800 wrote:

Not the electronic thyristor?
The one I am? talking about looks like a capacitor anx only has two wires.?
It spell almost same as a thyristor witch is a type SCR.?

Dave?

AC Voltage