Re: Are DROs worth the money/trouble
I currently just have a DRO on my carriage.? It's mounted on the back side of the lathe so it's out of the way (I removed the splash guard long ago).? I also have a hand crank on the lead screw but it has a fairly long handle so I don't find it too difficult to move the carriage in .001" increments.? I did get fed up with the large amount of backlash so I made a new bearing block for the right side of the LS that incorporates two thrust bearings, one on each side, that can be preloaded.? Now the only backlash is what the half nuts contribute.
I just brush on cutting oil when I need it so my DRO stays pretty clean.? I usually cut aluminum, brass and plastic dry, and they are the lion's share of what I machine.
Using the hand crank is how I determined that I had used the wrong lube on my LS bearing blocks.? I had used grease and found that it really increased the torque needed to turn the LS.? Now I use lubricating oil.
Regarding putting a DRO on the carriage, I've been experimenting with putting it below the lathe bed, using a sideways "U" shaped bracket attached to the back of the cross slide.? However, the frictional force needed to move the DRO sensor deflects the bracket to the tune of something like .004".? I'm looking at ways to reduce the friction.? It will be tricky because there's a sliding contact that connects the rule to the sensor's internal ground, and that has to be a very good contact or the DRO becomes very sensitive to electrical noise.
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Re: Are DROs worth the money/trouble
Here my draw full drop and dial indicators I use. Dave? 
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Re: Are DROs worth the money/trouble
Old time machinist would set compound to 30¡ã for direct reading the dial.?
They also with toop post grinders set compound to 5¡ã to 11¡ã for even finder feed.?
Dave?
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Re: Are DROs worth the money/trouble
I mounted a 1-inch travel dial indicator on my tailstock that?is adjustable. I also have a 1-inch travel?dial indicator mounted on the ways that can be removed. I made a stop for the carriage that I use a lot. The cross slide is fine as is, but i have replaced the gibbs?with brass ones. No batteries required. See the photo attached. Drawings are available. Regards, John Mattis (retired mechanical engineer)
I've been looking at DROs again.? Seems I go through this exercise every six months or so.
Wanted to bounce off the conclusion I always seem to come to and see if you guys have a different opinion.
1) Tailstock.? This seems like one of the easiest (cheap caliper modification) and cheapest.? I'm not sure the accuracy of calipers is necessary, but it's so easy to do that maybe why not.? The graduations on the tailstock are getting hard to read and a magnetic dial indicator is easily bumped.
2) Carriage This seems the easiest to implement, and also the most useless.? Even if I put a handle on my leadscrew, the feed is awfully coarse.? Typically I use the carriage to get close, lock it down, and then feed with the compound.? The only time it might be useful is turning a diameter on a long enough piece that the compound doesn't have the range on it's own - even then, if I had to turn to a shoulder,? I'd still likely set a carriage stop and advance the last few bits with the compound.? Maybe I'm doing it wrong
3) Cross-slide.? I think this one has some merit.? Not too difficult to implement and with the slop in the screw, having absolute measurement would be useful.? Leaning heavily towards this one.
4) Compound.? This one would be most useful, but it's also the hardest to do especially without getting in the way, and it's complicated if you angle the compound.? I'd like to do this one, but I'm not sure if it's doable enough to make it worth it.
?
What do you guys think?
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Re: Are DROs worth the money/trouble
They nice on mill but the they have a short life typically.??
On a lathe it takes up capacity depending how installed.?
The coolant kills the DRO's
I have set I use they installed the day need the dro and remove after the job is finished. Best of both worlds.?
On my mill I have DRO on quill on time it is up out of the coolant and oil.?
Most time I use long range dial indicators on magnetic base.?
Dave?
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Are DROs worth the money/trouble
I've been looking at DROs again.? Seems I go through this exercise every six months or so.
Wanted to bounce off the conclusion I always seem to come to and see if you guys have a different opinion.
1) Tailstock.? This seems like one of the easiest (cheap caliper modification) and cheapest.? I'm not sure the accuracy of calipers is necessary, but it's so easy to do that maybe why not.? The graduations on the tailstock are getting hard to read and a magnetic dial indicator is easily bumped.
2) Carriage This seems the easiest to implement, and also the most useless.? Even if I put a handle on my leadscrew, the feed is awfully coarse.? Typically I use the carriage to get close, lock it down, and then feed with the compound.? The only time it might be useful is turning a diameter on a long enough piece that the compound doesn't have the range on it's own - even then, if I had to turn to a shoulder,? I'd still likely set a carriage stop and advance the last few bits with the compound.? Maybe I'm doing it wrong
3) Cross-slide.? I think this one has some merit.? Not too difficult to implement and with the slop in the screw, having absolute measurement would be useful.? Leaning heavily towards this one.
4) Compound.? This one would be most useful, but it's also the hardest to do especially without getting in the way, and it's complicated if you angle the compound.? I'd like to do this one, but I'm not sure if it's doable enough to make it worth it.
?
What do you guys think?
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Re: 7x16 Spindle to Tailstock Alignment Test Outcome
When first started in machine I want to do tapper.
So between and move the tail stock.
It was a real pain to get tail stock back to zero.? Now I have a tapper attachment I move lathe to lathe.?
A short lathe under 16" CC you easily make a full length tapper attachment.?
Dave?
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Re: Master-and-Slave chuck (was "Logan No 465 speed collet chuck, accuracy")
Have 3C for #3 Morse tapper with collet.?
All need to do is make the draw bar.?
I am also looking at chuck mount 5C I have full set of 5C too.?
I did see years ago a 5C collet system that you adjust after it was on the lathe.?
Dave?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Bill Williams
7:22am? ?
Mike, in theory that is what the headstock Morse Taper should provide. Bill in Boulde
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Re: Master-and-Slave chuck (was "Logan No 465 speed collet chuck, accuracy")
I have purchased a lot very good new chucks over years . They had to be closer that collet for working being held.?? The collet using the the spindle tapper is best. UP DATE?? It is tapper most common is morse or jano. Lathe manufacturers have other tapper too. Most use some version of morse tapper.?
The ones using the chuck mount could less accurately.??
I am looking at a chuck mount 5C collet.?
The main problem with any collet system is time takes to change from chuck to collet.? So simple quite project takes more time changing to collet .?
Dave?
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Re: Master-and-Slave chuck (was "Logan No 465 speed collet chuck, accuracy")
Mike, in theory that is what the headstock Morse Taper should provide.? ?Bill in Boulder
On Tue, Dec 19, 2023 at 11:32?PM davesmith1800 < davesmith1@...> wrote: The accuracy of collet using the tapper in the spindle is less than 0.0005".?
Other types of collet is under 0.001"?
If a very costly air or hydraulic chuck can be under 0.000,1"?
The chucks we use on mini lathes is under 0.002" big difference.??
If need accuracy on most lathes use a four jaw independ chuck. Most can get within 0.000,5"?
Note have had use a four jaw chucks in shops the 3 jaw they had was junk. But I was paid by hour no big deal.
The new lathe I just purchased my first tooling purchased was a 4 jaw chuck
Dave?
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Re: Master-and-Slave chuck (was "Logan No 465 speed collet chuck, accuracy")
The accuracy of collet using the tapper in the spindle is less than 0.0005".?
Other types of collet is under 0.001"?
If a very costly air or hydraulic chuck can be under 0.000,1"?
The chucks we use on mini lathes is under 0.002" big difference.??
If need accuracy on most lathes use a four jaw independ chuck. Most can get within 0.000,5"?
Note have had use a four jaw chucks in shops the 3 jaw they had was junk. But I was paid by hour no big deal.
The new lathe I just purchased my first tooling purchased was a 4 jaw chuck
Dave?
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Re: [LL] Master-and-Slave chuck (was "Logan No 465 speed collet chuck, accuracy")
So it's a chuck for chucks .
animal
On 12/19/23 8:29 PM, Miket_NYC wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
This is a off topic from the discussion about
making collet chucks run more accurately, but has anyone here
ever made a Master-and-Slave* chuck?? This is a homemade
solution for precision holding of tools that I read about in
Tubal Cain's wonderful book, "Workholding in the Lathe,"
Number 15 of the Workshop Practice Series.
This book was published 37 years ago in 1986,
and the author called the master-and-slave chuck "totally
forgotten" even then, so it must be practically lost to
history by now. (The name retrieved no hits for me on
Google).??
But a master-and-slave chuck has several
advantages. It's homemade and fairly simple to make.? It
consists of a master chuck that attaches to the lathe
spindle, plus various slave chucks that lock into the master
chuck and hold the tools (or occasionally the work).
Most important: a master-and-slave chuck
system has ZERO RUNOUT, because you bore the holes for the
tools with the chuck on the lathe where they will be used,
so all errors cancel out.
The master chuck either threads onto the
spindle or attaches with bolts, such as on Chinese
minilathes.? And the slave chucks can be used in the master
chucks of several different lathes. (Theoretically, they
have zero runout only on the lathe they were made on, but
that shouldn't result in significant error, because you also
bore the hole in each master chuck on the spindle of its
lathe).
I've attached two photos of pages from the
book that should explain well enough? how to make it.?
I realize I'm plagiarizing Workholding in the
Lathe by sharing this, but I hope that will do good in the
long run by encouraging more people to buy this wonderful
little book, which is still very much available. In it,
Tubal Cain (the writer in Model Engineer magazine, not the
YouTube creator) tells you almost anything you could want to
know about turning between centers, using face plates, using
(and cleaning and repairing) chucks, unusual checks like the
master-and-slave chuck, steady rests, and collets. Finally
(although it's a bit off topic) he ends with a chapter on
lathe alignment, which is the best information I've ever
seen on that subject. All in 112 rather entertaining pages.
*NOTE: I recognize that the name
master-and-slave chuck may be offensive to some here because
our sensitivity to racial issues has advanced at least
somewhat from when this book was written. But apparently
similar terminology is currently used in the audio industry,
where it gets far more exposure, but no one has found a
better alternative name. Therefore I've continued to use
it.?
Mike Taglieri?
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Master-and-Slave chuck (was "Logan No 465 speed collet chuck, accuracy")
This is a off topic from the discussion about making collet chucks run more accurately, but has anyone here ever made a Master-and-Slave* chuck?? This is a homemade solution for precision holding of tools that I read about in Tubal Cain's wonderful book, "Workholding in the Lathe," Number 15 of the Workshop Practice Series.
This book was published 37 years ago in 1986, and the author called the master-and-slave chuck "totally forgotten" even then, so it must be practically lost to history by now. (The name retrieved no hits for me on Google).??
But a master-and-slave chuck has several advantages. It's homemade and fairly simple to make.? It consists of a master chuck that attaches to the lathe spindle, plus various slave chucks that lock into the master chuck and hold the tools (or occasionally the work).
Most important: a master-and-slave chuck system has ZERO RUNOUT, because you bore the holes for the tools with the chuck on the lathe where they will be used, so all errors cancel out.
The master chuck either threads onto the spindle or attaches with bolts, such as on Chinese minilathes.? And the slave chucks can be used in the master chucks of several different lathes. (Theoretically, they have zero runout only on the lathe they were made on, but that shouldn't result in significant error, because you also bore the hole in each master chuck on the spindle of its lathe).
I've attached two photos of pages from the book that should explain well enough? how to make it.?
I realize I'm plagiarizing Workholding in the Lathe by sharing this, but I hope that will do good in the long run by encouraging more people to buy this wonderful little book, which is still very much available. In it, Tubal Cain (the writer in Model Engineer magazine, not the YouTube creator) tells you almost anything you could want to know about turning between centers, using face plates, using (and cleaning and repairing) chucks, unusual checks like the master-and-slave chuck, steady rests, and collets. Finally (although it's a bit off topic) he ends with a chapter on lathe alignment, which is the best information I've ever seen on that subject. All in 112 rather entertaining pages.
*NOTE: I recognize that the name master-and-slave chuck may be offensive to some here because our sensitivity to racial issues has advanced at least somewhat from when this book was written. But apparently similar terminology is currently used in the audio industry, where it gets far more exposure, but no one has found a better alternative name. Therefore I've continued to use it.?
Mike Taglieri?
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Re: Cutting oil what do you use?
Today I used clear cutting oil for turning O1 tool steel work great. From photo above.??
Dave?
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Re: Cutting oil what do you use?
I have used Never-Seez for dead centers?
But like live centers.
I have tried different cutting oils.?
The good ones always has same problem cost. That why I now buy from the local store . No shipping cost and low to purchase? win win .
Dave?
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Re: 7x16 Spindle to Tailstock Alignment Test Outcome
Bill, your setscrew idea sounds interesting. I have something like that on my mini- mill to tweak tram. I could tap near the headstock bolt holes and use flat-tip setscrews. Setscrew diameter and pitch - I'll have to consider that. The headstock isn't hardened, so I wonder if the setscrews would gradually penetrate the metal?
Bret
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Re: 7x16 Spindle to Tailstock Alignment Test Outcome
On 12/18/23 11:52 AM, mike allen wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Bondo to cover up? their casting bloops
animal
On 12/18/23 4:40 AM, CBJessee-N4SRN
wrote:
Bill,
Your filled-epoxy suggestion got me thinking. I wonder if what I
thought was paint under the headstock was the vendor adding
epoxy to correct an overgrind? It was in the right place to have
shimmed properly. I brushed that out with a bronze brush and
solvent. ?
After another thorough clean and tightening the left front nut
first, I'm down to 0.005" high, so shimming is definitely
needed.
Bret
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Re: Cutting oil what do you use?
I use STP oil additive when I need an oil that stays in place on tailstock centers. It's as thick as honey and has a lot of ZDDP.? ( Never tried using it as a cutting oil).
Mike Taglieri?
Here bottle I use on my lathe is clear cutting oil from Home Depot.? It put a small bottle if i spill less to clean up.?
Also a can of Lead free lead.
Dave?
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Re: Cutting oil what do you use?
Here bottle I use on my lathe is clear cutting oil from Home Depot.? It put a small bottle if i spill less to clean up.? Also a can of Lead free lead. Dave? 
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Re: $1000 Budget: Which 7 x 14 to buy?
Yes, but occasionally you can exceed those limitations, if you think creatively. For example, I once drilled a hole in work in the chuck using a drill bit that was almost as long as the bed. All big drill bits have a center hole in the back end, so first I drilled a pilot hole with a smaller bit. Then I held the back end of the big bit in the tailstock center and used a lathe dog to keep it from rotating while I drilled the hole.
If that's not enough room, you can make a little nubbin of a tailstock center that doesn't stick out very far to get an inch or so more. (And if nothing else works, you can always saw the back of the drill bit off. They¡¯re not hardened).
People may say, " You should've just bought the longer bed in the first place!" But learning how to creatively stretch the limits of your tools is something you will always need, no matter what tools you have.? I read once about a machine shop that had something too long to turn on any of their lathes (and these were full-sized professional lathes). So they put two lathes end to end, turned the tailstock of one backwards, and held the work between the two lathes.? Machinists sometimes need to be creative.
Mike Taglieri?
On Mon, Dec 18, 2023, 1:22 PM David Wiseman < david@...> wrote: Always bearing in mind that those ¡®limitations¡¯ my now be so, depending on the work you intend to do.? ?I agree with you, Mike.? I also started with the HF 7x10, when they were around $425, and I had a 25% off coupon, so it was around $320.? I also upgraded the bed about 2 years later with the LMS 16" bed kit (on sale) and added two 5" chucks, a 3-jaw self centering and a 4-jaw independent.? Then I had the lathe that I wanted.
Always look for bargains and go with your feelings.? Just be aware of the limitations of what you are buying, and if it can be upgraded to what you want.
ralphie
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davesmith1800
John Mattis
chrisser
